don't forget that incident in alabama (of all places!) where a bunch of white supremacists were planning to purchase machine guns and explosives and conduct a military style assault on the mexican immigrants that were living and working in their hometown.

of course, like you said, this stuff has absolutely NO correlation with the rhetoric that the leaders of the republican party have been spewing over the last few years.

What?
No one cares about the effect on the black people of this nation?
Already black unemployment runs 35% and the Greedy Repuglicans want to hurt us more?
There is ongoing ethic cleansing going on in LA and central California.
What has the Democrat Party abandoned us?
Have we not been the most loyal ` faithful section of the Party?
Now to be sold out by the likes of Ted Kennedy?
Is there no justice?

I'm going to make a leap here, Mac, and put your argument together for you: The presence of undocumented workers lowers market wages and leads to higher unemployment in low-income, unskilled workers--which, I assume, you are equating to African American workers. Therefore, lax immigration laws and enforcement are harmful to African Americans.

I'm pretty sure this minority vs. minority mindset is more dangerous than anything the Minute Men could put out--then again, it sounds like just the thing anti-immigration conservatives would cook up--but there's also little evidence that your assumption is accurate. In fact, there are studies that show that illegal immigration is actually market-driven--that is, undocumented workers are drawn in to areas and industries where there is a demand for their labor, not swooping in and stealing jobs that are currently filled.

Your comment about ethnic cleansing, though, sounds like your fears are more culture-based than economic-based. But core ethnicities in neighborhoods shift all the time.

Of course it's market driven - illegal aliens are usually willing to work for less than native workers. So business privatizes the benefits and socializes the costs - they get cheaper labor while those would would have otherwise taken those jobs have to look elsewhere.

Is that a good thing for our society? Maybe - it could lead to 2 or 3 cents extra off a head of lettuce. But if it leads to long term lowering of American living standards, then it's not good - and there's evidence that it is (report just came out this week). Never mind the long-term environmental effects of adding more people who now consume energy and emit carbon at a first-world level.

And aren't we worried about Oregon getting overcrowded? Well, California is losing hundreds of thousands of native born folks every year (of all races), some of whom are moving here because they feel California is too crowded already. So Oregon is feeling a second order effect from these patterns.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for allowing some immigration, particularly among the highly skilled and their immediate family members, but I don't understand why we shouldn't take steps to protect the labor rights and wages of low-skilled Americans above the billions in the developing world.

I also wonder how many people folks think the US can handle. 400 million? 500 million? A billion? Let's ask these questions instead of accusing folks of collaborating with the Minutemen.

Now, none of this should be taken to excuse the crime that has apparently been committed here. That was abhorrent.

Also the use of the term "ethnic cleansing" to compare what happened in Bosnia and in other places to mere economic dislocation is also in fairly poor taste.

"And aren't we worried about Oregon getting overcrowded?"

Who's worried about that? I'd like to see our population double, at least in Portland.

OK, I stand corrected. Many are worried about Oregon getting overcrowded, but not Amy.

Personally, I'm not thrilled about seeing nothing but houses from Jantzen Beach to Cottage Grove. But hey, that's just me.

I didn't say I want to see nothing but houses. I'd also like to see condos, apartments (including those big and affordable enough for families), parks, transit, libraries, schools, bustling neighborhood commercial centers, etc. And enough people to help that all thrive.

Sometimes I think the "mind" (tho I hesitate to use the term) of the righteous wing is constantly trapped in sweeps week.

Anyone in Salem would like to get together for coffee and see if we can perhaps work together to get our voices heard, short of marching in the streets as the illegal population and their advocates.
I would like to see as a group to meet in different places with signs indicating our voices.
Or is there a yahoo or any other online group that works on illegal immigration issues? I will watch here for any responses.

I don't understand why the businesses that employ illegal immigrants aren't taking more heat. They're the valve on the whole thing. It's supply and demand of cheap labor.
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