potter is way off on this. i'm gonna sound like a right-winger here, but i sure hope potter has the same sympathy for actual americans who can't find work. you can talk until your blue in the face about how americans won't do these jobs, but you can't convince me there is one job in this country someone won't do if you pay them enough money.

the sole reason these companies won't pay up to the level where actual americans want to do stuff like this is because they know they don't have to it, they'll just go find a immigrant smuggling pipeline and pay completely crap to people who don't know that it's completely crap.

Except that's how the Mercury hired me, Lyle. And I'm legal!

Just kidding, Steve. Just kidding.

this was the place that WWeek profiled a while back, right? So the feds read the story...and instead of making sure Del Monte improved working conditions, they went looking for undocumenteds. Nice.

Potter's right on. And glad no PDX police were involved.

That's right, Torrid. There's a link to the WW piece in the earlier post:

http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/2007/06/immigration_busts_at_del_monte.php

The ICE spokeswoman was desperate to point out that the raids were the result of a "six month investigation," perhaps hoping to fend off suggestions that it's simply been "reading the newspapers lately."

has anybody seen a story on this where it mentions what the company was paying these people per hour?

I disagree with Potter as well, lyle. You forgot to mention that while they are paying close to nothing to someone who doesn't know better, the illegal is using someone else SS# which boils down to identity theft...thus, i don't think that it is entirely accurate when Potter says most of the workers were not causing any problems at all, since it is a big problem for those whose SS#s were stolen.

yeah, and another thing is, what happens when these people slice the shit out of themselves while working in these plants (which in these types of food processing plants happens A LOT), and end up in the emergency room with not a penny in their pockets? somehow i haven't gathered that mexican health insurance companies raise their premiums to cover the cost of unpaid medical bills in this country.

You guys are clearly in sympathetic mood. Personally I agree with Potter—it must feel pretty shitty to be languishing in jail right now for simply trying to get money for your family.

When a country's economy slows, right-wing governments look for scapegoats, and as far as I can tell, today's actions by ICE were simply another notch on history's fascist bedpost.

I am not saying that it isn't shitty - I am just saying people need to take responsibilty for their actions - they were here illegally, and knew that this could happen, and now need to deal with the consequences. It isn't ICE's fault, it is the laws of the country, and those who decided to be here illegally.

It IS ICE'S fault. They can say what they like about "being their job to enforce the law, and not to change it," blah blah blah, but I don't buy it.

You work for that agency, you're personally morally responsible for the actions you take on its behalf. If you don't like it, quit.

Likewise illegals should take personal moral responsibility for being here illegally.

I know which one I'd rather be.

Matt, when you say (in #10) "likewise illegals should take personal moral responsibility for being here illegally," what, specifically, do you mean in this case?

I mean I'd rather be an illegal and have it on my conscience, than have to explain to my kids what I did as an ICE officer.

That makes no sense, Matt. Gee, I think I'll go and commit a crime and take "moral responsibility" for it. I'm not taking a side in this issue - just with your logic. Or lack thereof.

One of the biggest problems with the anti-immigration folks I've encountered is their continual resorting to so-called "logic" to justify hate speech.

You know: "I'm not against immigrants, just illegals..." followed by a few paragraphs of hatred-baiting.

There are crimes and there are crimes, and then, there are crimes. And not all of them come in neat little moral packages with a fascist law attached.

fascist law?? hate speech? Please... give me a break. Talk about using inflamatory statements. The laws are there to keep order and promote fairness for citizens. You not wanting that doesn't make those that disagree with you fostering hate speech. You are trying to refute those that disagree with you by attacking them personally. It is pitiful.

Matt, just wondering: is everyone who favors enforcing immigration law therefore "anti-immigration" or "hatred-baiting"?

For starters, drop the inane semantics there Matt. That's the problem with you open-borders, no person is illegal, Si Se Puede progressives. You attempt to smear anyone who believes in the importance of maintaining our borders and sovereignty as a bunch of hate-filled, anti-immigrant, racist dolts. Bullshit.

I would concur that the vast majority of illegal aliens are hard working folks primarily concerned with improving their lot in life doing menial jobs that provide much greater compensation here than in their country of origin. However, I also believe that there is a significant percentage, perhaps as high as 40% who are up to no good. That's the problem with criminals, you see. We need to have a certain degree of control over our immigration system and have some idea of who is entering our country. Is the current system in dire need of retooling? Yes. Should we grant citizenship to those who violated the rules? No. Should we be incensed by foreign nationals marching in our streets demanding their "rights"? Hell yes. It's not about racism, hate, nativism, xenophobia or any of the other crap you socialist pukes are fond of spouting off. It's about law & order.

Lets change the slant of the rhetoric a little bit.

What are the laws of your country, Matt, regarding illegal immigration ?

How strictly are they enforced ?

How do they compare with the near-total lack of enforcement in the States ?

For the record, my take on illegal immigration is that, one, Republicans like cheap labor, the cheaper the better, and, two, that the impending North American Union/NAFTA Superhighway will render this discussion quite moot as the borders are dissolved and the average American's standard of living sinks right into the gutter.

Cabbie nailed it. However, this is one of those rare occasions where anti-American socialists (that would be Matt I'd guess) are in bed with the neocons. One wants and endless supply of cheap, easily exploitable labor while the other seeks the total destruction of the middle class to sway them toward their progressive revolution. Both are equally worthy of hot lead injections.

Gringo: I prefer the term "narcissistic, self-obsessed thought-nazi." But "anti-American socialist" will do.

I know I feel ****so***** much safer and protected from terrorists now that ICE has arrested and deported 167 workers working for $7.50/hr.

Yeah right.

I don't recall anyone mentioning terrorism...

there is a way around all this needless
strife and conflict with the F83king Feds
and that is CASCADIA...secede from the now
fascist rightwingnut country of 'Murika to
form CASCADIA...an idea whose time has come!

I'll bite...cuz, you know, I am such a racist dick:

"I'm not against immigrants, just illegals..."

I'm not against immigrants, but illegals get taken advantage of in our society. Why did they bust the illegals? They were here illegally. Thats an easy one.

My question is...why didn't they bust the manager who hired them, the agency that supplied them, and the head of Del Monte? Oh, thats right...pick on the little guy.

F that! Bust 'em all. The illegals for being here illegally, and the bosses for hiring them. THEN fine the company 1 million dollars per illegal hired, and you will see some radical change.

Lets get honest here...this is a shell game that no one is serious about stopping, and it *should* stop.

My great-great grandparents came through Ellis Island, fleeing war and poverty, and I would like to see MANY more do the same. Legally. Lets loosen the restrictions on LEGAL immigration and get as many folks in as we can. The American dream is alive, and we ought to be importing folks for it as fast as we can.

Cablenut is right. Why is this an either/or issue? What country can I go to and work in illegally and have the citizens of that country come to my defense?

People shouldn't be here illegally. The people who hire them should be busted and the system that perpetuates this stopped. AND we should be working to create a system that allows a free flow of legal immigrants- the kind who have made this an amazing country.

The last few comments offer up some good points, but they are, I'd guess, a bit idealistic when it comes to the law.

What does it take to get a conviction on the people hiring the illegal immigrants? I'm not a lawyer (or even well informed, really), but I'd guess you'd have to prove intent -- that the employer *knew* he'd hired illegal immigrants. And the employer is quite likely to hire a lawyer to fight the charges, upping the ante and meaning the government has to have a solid case to proceed.

On the other hand, what does it take to get a conviction on illegal immigrants? Just a lack of legal documentation. Much easier to prove.

Not saying it's fair. Just saying.

There is an IRS form called an I-9 that is supposed to prove your citizenship or ability to work legally in the US. You need to provide one or two forms of legal identification to fill it out. Certainly I.D. cards can be forged but if the employer has obviously disregarded this or knowingly hired an illegal there should be consequences. It's hard to blame the illegal for wanting to work but it's a lot easier to prosecute them. Conversely, it's easy to blame the employers but good luck prosecuting them.

It looks like they are busting three people from the employment agency used. YAY!

I wish we could deprive them of their livelihood and freedom the same way we are going to deprive those illegal immigrants of theirs...

Wait a MINUTE! We *CAN*! We can put them in prison for a long, long time.

Here is hoping they get nice, long prison sentences. Now...how can we bust the head of Del Monte for trafficing in human lives?

complilcations:
1. many "illegal" immigrants are more closely related to this land than the folks against them being here are (Mexico) People related to them may well have crossed the borders especially staying closer to the Southwestern ones since humans have walked on that soil
To me there is in that more right to be here than most of you have

2. The companies should get busted for paying illegal wages
not for hiring the people who will work for that money. There are homeless people on my street who would work for the money
That would level the playing field and destroy most people anti immigration arguements and the problems from it
..Why is that not happening, well it doesn't take much thinking to figure that out if you have half a brain and know anything about politics political movements
on and on I could talk about this as I have a lot of study in this area

3. the border walls and all that shit and this bust is just to make it look as though the government cares about working people
its cheaper than actually caring Most people who are worried about immigration are worried about there own families and rightfully so but it is not the fault of the immigrants just as it was not the fault black folks like myself at the end of slavery

calmdownand payattention:
The raided Delmonte plant is located in North Portland's Rivergate area. Once upon a time, when "black folks" could afford to live in North Portland, many supported their families by working in that area at plants like Delmonte. Many others, the lucky, worked residential and commercial construction as framers, laborers, and carpenters. Tell me, do you see "black folks" working on construction sites in North Portland or elsewhere in Portland? Nope, they're gone and so are their families that once lived along Alberta, Albina, and Mississippi streets. The 2000 US census showed that when compared to the 1990 census the number of "black folks" living in North Portland decreased by 17%. I guarantee the 2010 census will show a more significant decrease. The black community of North Portland has been displaced, driven across the river to Vancouver, or out towards Gresham - past 122 along Stark and Division.

Has illegal immigration contributed to this? I think so. It depresses wages, particularly for blue collar and service jobs - which were the mainstay of North Portland's once-upon-a-time "black folk" residents.

Are all jobs worked by illegal aliens low wage? No, construction certainly isn't. Also, what about Civil Service or Public Employee jobs, which certainly have high pay and benifits? Does the City of Portland, Multnomah County, or the State of Oregon hire illegal aliens? Probably so. Why would the City of Portland verify Social Security numbers if Portland Police are not permited to verify the immigration status of suspects or traffic violaters; if elected officials are proud that City, County, and State law enforcement personal did not participate in the Delmonte raid; and if Mayor Potter views the use of stolen Social Security Numbers as OK.