I don't think I'm alone when I say that I like to support our local businesses enough to be a little forgiving and understanding. I trust them to do their research and provide me with something produced as sustainably AND affordably as possible, and also expect them to be transparent about their business practices. This is Portland. It is not a commune. We may have to outsource a little. I personally would rather support a family in Thailand than some sleazebucket in L.A. with his "vertically integrated manufactured" t-shirts that fall apart. Go Seyta!

Anyone who has shopped for suits at Duchess would have to know that they are NOT made in a sweatshop, or even a factory. Sweatshops are set up to produce thousands of the same exact garments, and Duchess suits are made to measure. Obviously they are made by highly skilled people. It's true that these people live very far away from here and so there is the issue of fuel being used for shipping, but please don't assume that just because something is made in Asia it must be poorly constructed in a sweatshop. That doesn't even make sense in this case.

Also, the idea that someone can be the arbiter of "ethical" apparel production is preposterous. The fact is, for many people locally made goods are cost-prohibitive. Perhaps one day that will change, but for now most of us are just doing the best we can with the resources we've got. To suggest that if someone can't afford to spend $3000 on a suit then they just shouldn't have one is completely elitist. I can't imagine Donovan Skirvin would tell anyone that if they can't afford his shoes they should just go barefoot.

Seyta rocks and so do her suits. Check out the pics on the Duchess myspace page: http://www.myspace.com/duchessclothier

I considered buying one from her, but even $400 is too much for my poor ass. But they are really nice suits. And I trust that she has looked into the working conditions of the tailors she uses.

Donovan Skirvin is a grade A, bona fide jackass. Some white dude who names "ese carnal" as his label? uh...? I'd rather pay a nice family in Thailand with real skills to make a tailored suit than some arrogant hipster (does he even speak spanish?) with a bad, self serving attitude to make a poorly crafted pair of shoes for an exhorbant sum anyday.

Right now in this country, it is not possible to locally manufacture the goods from Duchess, Sameunderneath, and NAU at a cost that is something people will purchase. Not only from a cost stand point, but the capacity of a US business to manufacture. I stand behind this statement. I have worked both at an international trading company (the one that currently imports Sameunderneaths goods), and now a local (pdx) apparel manufacturing facility. When you have enough demand and not enough product, overseas is the option. There are good factories and bad. Not every factory, or tailor is a sweatshop.

While it is nice to want everyone in one place to support one another, that is not the current market place. It is unfair to think so and point fingers at others. Until the entire economy changes, this is the way it will be.

I have a line. I sew it all myself, to keep things local. But I don't look down upon others who enter the global marketplace. All 3 of those companies are known for being pretty ethical in the apparel industry. Most large apparel corporations don't give a shit, and bottom dollar is their only concern. When people stop getting mad about paying more then $20 for a pair of jeans, then maybe we'll see a change.

In response to Donovan Skirvin (from comments at http://mod.portlandmercury.com):

1. I am guessing from the comments here that I do not think I am assuming too much when I say that it doesn’t seem as if anyone in this forum is interested in the “full diatribe.”

2. My business is a local business. A storefront, for that matter is a business. I am not a middle-person. I use my developed skills and interest in history to consult with each client personally for around two hours, educating them about clothing history and working with them to design their ideal suit. Then I take their measurements and use my patternmaking skills to develop patterns that will fit them correctly. Without my local work and skills, my business would not exist. I do not represent an outside interest. I represent my own interests, which are the interest in creating my own business, the interest in old-fashioned or refined esthetics and personal expression, and the provision of these things at a reasonable price. Clearly, these are not your interests. So what?

3. I would argue that is does matter that someone in Thailand is making a living wage in Thailand. I don’t understand how you can so cavalierly assign importance to people based on geography. Because of our common interests and mutual respect, I feel much closer to my tailors in Thailand than I feel to the guy I saw today tearing down MLK in an SUV with a Bush bumper sticker. Maybe you should reconsider your vision of community, or, if not that, maybe you should expend your energy trying to dismantle the global communication systems like tv and the internet that are allowing us to know about great artisans in Thailand. Or, maybe it does make sense to “start at home” by focusing your rage on local businesses when you’re so passionate about the local economy…?

4. Food is cheap. Suits are expensive. I, and most Portlanders who care about such things, can handle the difference of a $1 taco from Taco Bell and a $3 taco from Por Que No. People in Portland can afford to pay a few dollars more for local things, and do. My business would not exist if I charged significantly more. I would not want it to. I do not want to charge more; I want to provide reasonably priced custom suits. I do not have a problem working with excellent craftsmen in Thailand. I am not proclaiming to be a local handmade suit-maker. I am proclaiming to be a proponent of a better esthetic, custom clothing, and a champion of quality. I will support any local tailor who makes great suits that cost thousands of dollars. They might be able to survive here; I don’t know. But, that person is not me. There is room for all of us.

5. Although it might seem like there are no reasons why we would have similar interests, there actually are: While you are apparently very passionate and narrow-minded about local economy, I am equally as passionate and narrow-minded about esthetics. I hate it when people wear ugly clothes and I want people to wear more suits. We are both elitists. Yay! The difference between us is that I would never try to damage a local business by proclaiming that their products are ugly and I recognize that these things are a matter of opinion. Your opinion has no place in my business.

6. I do not know anything about Nau or Sameunderneath (which is why I am not going to say anything about them). But, I find your choice to single out Duchess as the one to throw down about very confusing. The products of Duchess and Ese Carnal are potentially very complementary and seem to reference history in a reverent and similar way. I am doing a lot to help people realize that custom shopping is a great experience. Encouraging custom shopping is a great way to minimize gross global retail manufacturing. In the custom market, nothing is to waste. Only demand is supplied in the most basic and personal way. I would not be surprised if customers have patronized your business because they had a great experience with custom clothing at my business first. It was irresponsible and counter-productive of you to publicly espouse your offence at my business not following your utopian dream.

I will not be writing any more on this subject, but felt that since this discussion began publicly, I should redress your response publicly as well. I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I, for one, will not be supporting them.

Sincerely,
Seyta Selter
Duchess, Clothier
www.duchessclothier.com
seyta@duchessclothier.com

I find it unfortunate that Donovan's original letter felt the need to include Seyta and her company. I truly do not think Duchess is the problem at hand.
Her inclusion halted a conversation I would have liked to seen about lines such as Sameunderneath and Nau.
These are both "local" brands that seem poised, and determined, to continue to grow into very large companies. They are both being touted lavishly with labels such as "sustainable" and "ethical". And they both produce overseas. This is pretty much the extent of my knowledge of them and I would like to know more.
I am very skeptical of companies that mass-produce goods in poorer countries. Years of studying effects of consumerism and worker rights abuses lead me no other choice. Companies always claim that "their inspection and contractual policies with the factories are trustworthy". Hell, the Gap has claimed the same thing for a decade now while a study by the NLC just last year in Jordan showed them violating everyone of their own rules.
I am not trying to get on a high horse and I know these companies are not the Gap (yet at least). I completely support their use of more sustainable products, but you can NOT call your company sustainable if you give your fabric choices more attention than the actual workers making your product. You most certainly can not call yourself ethical.
There are a lot of sweet talkin' words on Sameunderneath's website without any specifics on how and where their clothing is produced. I think those specifics are necessary, especially when they are one of the headliners for this upcoming Portland Fashion Week with the theme being "ethical".

I don't know what else to say except Donovan Skirvin is a self righteous, ignorant dickhead. I'm sure he has absolutely no made in China merchandise in his house. And, mistaking China for Thailand? Glad he so thoroughly researched this before making a total jackass out of himself.

FYI, most companies do visits of the factories (overseas or not) they use. The apparel industry is not pretty, the manufacturing end anyways. I would put money on a bet that NAU, Sameunderneath, and Duchess, have been to where their product is made.

I would also guess that sameunderneath and nau have visited the factories that their products are produced. Though I don't think it means much. It is easy to put a happier face on a place when one comes to visit.

why go through duchess when you can go straight to thailand for great suits. cheaper too

It is nice to see our self righteous cobbler friend step back from the hard-line slander of his first letter. However, while Mr. Skirvin's ads - I mean letters - certainly must have involved a great deal of navel gazing, they reveal glaring self-serving ignorance. If Mr. Skirvin walks around living the ideals of his preachy ads, he must be collapse at night completely exhausted from the day's moral dilemmas. Where did the chip in your Macbook Pro come from, Donovan? How did you sleep at night before you could afford to put locally produced fair-trade wasabi on your unagi roll? But kudos on finding lots of Junior executives at Nike to make shoes for. If your lucky maybe someday they'll let you shine Phil's shoes, which I'm sure are also handmade, like mine, in Italy.

When did he back down from his hard-line slander?

I copy and pasted this from an earlier column in which he discusses his line. It's pretty amusing given the slander he throws around. A touch hypocritical?

article reads— Of the name Ese Carnal, Skirvin explains, "Ese carnal literally means 'this meat.' I grew up in a pretty violent California city, which eventually got a screwdriver stuck in my back. So, I knew a lot of Mexican gangsters. Ese carnal is a Spanish gangster slang term that sort of means 'blood brother.' Or, 'this one who is so close to me, that they are of my flesh.' I also have worked in many restaurants with a lot of Guatemalans and Mexicans. I always had the fantasy of starting this company, and going back to hire all of my Guatemalan and Mexican friends... to pay them a wage worthy of their greatness."

ooh, part the waters

When did he back down from his hard-line slander?

I copy and pasted this from an earlier column in which he discusses his line. It's pretty amusing given the slander he throws around. A touch hypocritical?

article reads— Of the name Ese Carnal, Skirvin explains, "Ese carnal literally means 'this meat.' I grew up in a pretty violent California city, which eventually got a screwdriver stuck in my back. So, I knew a lot of Mexican gangsters. Ese carnal is a Spanish gangster slang term that sort of means 'blood brother.' Or, 'this one who is so close to me, that they are of my flesh.' I also have worked in many restaurants with a lot of Guatemalans and Mexicans. I always had the fantasy of starting this company, and going back to hire all of my Guatemalan and Mexican friends... to pay them a wage worthy of their greatness."

ooh, part the waters