In this week’s paper, I wrote about an odd, disconcerting situation (don’t wait for it to hit the streets, read it here):

Ira Glass, host of radio show This American Life—and darling of the clichéd “latte-sipping, Volvo-driving, NPR-listening” liberal set—plans to visit Portland in October to talk about his new book, The New Kings of Non-Fiction, and his radio and television series.

But the event—hosted by Oregon Public Broadcasting (OPB)—is being held at an unlikely location, given Glass’ fan base. Fans plunking down $28 to see their public radio hero will be cramming into pews at New Hope Community Church, a megachurch in Clackamas, and one of the most actively anti-gay churches in the Portland area.

New Hope was a big donor to the Measure 36 campaign (to the tune of $8K, including money from the pastor), lobbied against this year’s domestic partnership and anti-discrimination bills, and is currently collecting signatures on Sundays to send those laws to a public vote. Since we went to press, a grassroots movement seems to have sprung up to speak out about the poor choice of venue.

Roey Thorpe—former executive director of Basic Rights Oregon, and now Director of Advocacy Services for the national group Equality Federation—checked in with OPB’s John Bell last week, laying out her concerns about the choice of venue, and asking OPB to reconsider.

I’m sure that [New Hope] will tell you that they welcome everyone, and certainly that if you are renting the space that everyone is welcome. They probably even have gay church members who are conflicted but love the church and the ministry. But this is not a place that welcomes all of us, and I’m sure that Ira Glass himself would not want to be in such a place if he knew about the political positions the congregation and its leaders have taken. He and his show are inclusive and affirming, not judgmental.

I know that a space that large is hard to come by. But I urge you to reconsider this choice of venue, certainly in the future but now as well. I’m a loyal OPB listener and member, and I hope that you will understand why I am so concerned.

Thank you,
Roey Thorpe

Bell replied, saying that “As a gay man, I understand and am sympathetic to your concerns,” but noted that New Hope is the only space available (which isn’t entirely true, though it may be the only 1500 seat venue available that night). Plus:

Were I to rule out using New Hope strictly because of their belief system, I would be as guilty as if I ruled out a gay friendly venue because someone else might complain.

Thorpe shot back:

I agree that it’s important to be inclusive, but in doing so, isn’t it important to insist that your venues themselves are inclusive? For instance, let’s take the extreme—you certainly wouldn’t use a venue that advocated white supremacy, right?

Their entire exchange is after the cut—Thorpe makes other excellent points (like “What I’m really saying here is that I’m sure you’d draw the line somewhere, so why are you drawing it in a place that allows use of a venue where people are actively and monetarily working to encourage discrimination?”). Bell didn’t reply, and Thorpe sent the exchange to a few dozen friends and encouraged them to contact OPB. “I feel terrible that OPB, a station I love and listen to frequently, would be so callous about this.”

Last night, the issue landed on LeLo in NoPo’s blog:

I love Ira Glass but I won’t be setting foot into a right wing conservative Christian church to see him—especially when it’s a fundraiser for OPB…

So what’s wrong with this picture? I love Oregon Public Broadcasting, and I love Ira Glass, but there’s no way I’m walking into a church that doesn’t accept me for who I am, and who works against me, to hear him. I just can’t do that. And Oregon Public Broadcasting? They evidently can do that no problem, and are paying a pretty penny for the use of the venue. Yep, they’re paying New Hope, a place that is actively and monetarily working to encourage discrimination, for the use of their venue for the wonderfully inclusive and pro-LGBT Ira Glass to speak.

Glass and I hadn’t fully connected before my piece went to print—he wanted to speak with OPB first. I got a note from him this morning that he hadn’t gotten in touch with Bell yet. Stay tuned.

Hello, Friends,

I’ve talked to some of you about this but I wanted to let others know about something that makes me so sad: OPB, our public radio station, is bringing Ira Glass to town and is hosting him at the New Hope Church. New Hope, especially their pastor Rev. Ray Cotton, were leaders in the pro-Measure 36 campaign. I haven’t looked through the records exhaustively, but I can tell you that they gave $5,000 to help get the measure on the ballot—a clear attack on lgbt rights, and I also know that the church made petitions available to be signed, Rev. Cotton preached from the pulpit to support the measure, and probably much more I don’t know.

When I heard the news I immediately emailed OPB, and what follows is the entire exchange I had with them. I encourage others to contact OPB, and if anyone knows how to get in touch with Ira Glass, please let me know—I’d be surprised if this was okay with him. Feel free to forward this email as you see fit. I feel terrible that OPB, a station I love and listen to frequently, would be so callous about this.

Take care and let me know what you think—

Roey

Dear Friends,

I was just listening to This American Life and I heard the news that Ira Glass was coming to Portland--this is exciting to me because I love the show and I heard him speak last year when he was in Portland. But then I heard that he is speaking at the New Hope Church and I felt so crushed, because I am not welcome in that church because I'm gay.

You may not be aware of it, but the New Hope Church played a major role in the Measure 36 campaign--they gathered hundreds of signatures and made major financial contributions to the campaign as a congregation. They consistently preached from the pulpit about the importance of "saving marriage," and they continue to support "ex-gay" ministries that attempt to change people from gay to straight.

I'm sure that they will tell you that they welcome everyone, and certainly that if you are renting the space that everyone is welcome. They probably even have gay church members who are conflicted but love the church and the ministry. But this is not a place that welcomes all of us, and I'm sure that Ira Glass himself would not want to be in such a place if he knew about the political positions the congregation and its leaders have taken. He and his show are inclusive and affirming, not judgmental.

I know that a space that large is hard to come by. But I urge you to reconsider this choice of venue, certainly in the future but now as well. I'm a loyal OPB listener and member, and I hope that you will understand why I am so concerned.

Thank you,
Roey Thorpe

Roey -
Thanks for emailing about the Ira Glass event. You're not alone in objecting to our choice of venue.
And as a gay man, I understand and am sympathetic to your concerns.

New Hope was not my first choice for a venue for a variety of reasons. However, it's the only space available for the date we need.

More importantly, part of the values of public broadcasting is to help create space where conflicting beliefs can respectfully coexist. Were I to rule out using New Hope strictly because of their belief system, I would be as guilty as if I ruled out a gay friendly venue because someone else might complain.

I do hope you'll reply.

Cordially,
J

John Bell
Associate Director of Membership
On-Air, On-Line and Event Fundraising
Oregon Public Broadcasting

Dear John,

Thanks for responding. I appreciate it, and I knew that there was no ill will intended by the choice of venue, but I wasn’t sure that you were aware of the potential problems.

So here’s my response to your argument about the guiding philosophy of public broadcasting—I agree that it’s important to be inclusive, but in doing so, isn’t it important to insist that your venues themselves are inclusive? For instance, let’s take the extreme—you certainly wouldn’t use a venue that advocated white supremacy, right? Whether it was from a religious perspective or not, that would be unacceptable and it wouldn’t fit with your philosophy of inclusiveness to have an event in a venue that supported discrimination against people based on their personal characteristics, right? Well, it hasn’t been that long since many churches opposed racial integration, civil rights, and interracial marriage on religious grounds. We have a short memory in this country when it comes to racism—we like to pretend that all of us knew racism was wrong the whole time, when that was certainly not the case. If you’re interested in more about this, I like the site http://www.faithinamerica.info/ as a campaign dedicated to pointing out that racism used to be justified and defended by the Bible and evangelicals.

What I’m really saying here is that I’m sure you’d draw the line somewhere, so why are you drawing it in a place that allows use of a venue where people are actively and monetarily working to encourage discrimination? I have nothing against evangelical faith, or Christians—that’s not the faith I practice, but I am fine living and letting live. But it is they who are taking that from religious faith to political action, who have brought ballot measure after ballot measure that attacks LGBT people for almost 20 years now. Inclusiveness doesn’t mean that you include everyone, even people who espouse and enact bigotry—we do get to have our own standards! I think if a venue took an active position against another group, even if that venue was gay-owned or gay friendly, you should not have events there.

That’s my two cents worth. On a personal level, I’m really sad about the choice of venue—I think Ira Glass is a great speaker and I loved his stories and perspective about his work the last time I heard him. I’m a pretty fearless and intrepid person, and there are very few places I wouldn’t go (I just got back from working with gay rights activists in Alabama, for instance). But this church is one place I absolutely wouldn’t set foot in—the thought makes me so angry that I don’t think I could even enjoy hearing one of my personal heroes. I hope you’ll think about your policy for the future, and that you’ll remember that making decisions that fall on the right side of history are often inconvenient and even painful, but that doing it makes a difference for many people, and at this moment, I’m one of them.

Take care,

Roey