Matt,

Portland used to be a thriving blue collar town. There were lots of good, living wage jobs in the warehouse district that is now the pearl and on the waterfront, where they are now building condos. These jobs were available to folks right out of high school. I know, I had one of them.

Everything started to change during the recession of the early eighties. My company, along with most of the companies in the warehouse district, went belly up. People scattered in every direction.... lots of folks started their own companies, just like I did. But those companies were for the most part small companies. Small consulting firms, etc.

What was lacking were startups for big payroll generators.

Fast forward twenty years. Portland is a great place to play. Clean, Green, lots to do. You can live cheaply several to a house, ride a bicycle and have fun. Until you're ready to make some money and/or raise a family. The public sector offers the best options for a middle class existence here now. The private sector offers less and less.

Look at where Portland was and that should explain where Portland is.

Portland doesn't need to be explained or justified to people who do not live here. The longer that people from other parts of the country think that this is a Podunk-second tier-backwater city the longer it will continue to be livable. Who cares what people from NY, LA, MIA, ATL, CHI, PHX think - they don't live here. Let them come and spend their money as long as they go home afterward.

Ahem. One pedantic point to make here.

Part of your dialogue:

Him:So, you’re a native Portlander now, eh? Me: [shocked] Uh, I guess so. I’ve been here since April 2006. I guess I am. Yeah.

I'm kind of hoping you were shocked because you realize that, no matter how much you love Portland (and we love you back, Matt, don't ever forget that), the only way you could consider yourself a native Portlander is to have actually been born in Portland?

My cards on the table: I adore my home town, but i, alas, am not a native Portlander. I am a native Oregonian (which still allows me to be smug about being in my home state) however. I am a Portlander, if only by choice; I can say I'm a long-time Portlander if you want to really go beyond pedantic about it, but I'm not a native Portlander, and never can be, no matter how much I want to be.

Continuing on with your discussion...

On the jobs questions: Friends and I had drinks on Thursday night, and spent a good chunk of time marveling at how anyone was able to come to Portland and actually land their dream job. Between the three of us, we know about half a dozen people on the cusp of moving here, all with very specific goals. We aren't sure if the city will allow them to meet those goals without throwing innumerable hurdles in the way.

As far as my impressions of Portland go, in as much as I'm a downstater (my term, not offical Oregonese (also my term)), they were formed by years of watching KPTV, KATU, KOIN, KGW, and KOPB. Even for us yokels down in Salem and Silverton, Portland was kind of another world.

And when I first got here, I was your typical country bumpkin-gawking at the amazingly tall (40 stories!) buildings downtown and the throng of neighborhoods and houses and the interesting places to just go and be. Nothing like Council Crest, Oaks Park, or Tom McCall Waterfront Park exists in Salem.

I have friends who've called Portland "The City that Always Sleeps", and I concede the point in some cases. But I came from Snailem, The City that Never Wakes Up, so to me, Portland is the throbbing heart of the universe. And now, instead of bumpkin, I'm parochial–which is just Oregon bumpkin with extra added sophistication.

i have 2 jobs, neither of them i really want(service industry), but i have to pay bills.

i'd sure like to land the dream job, though.

yea, and the native oregonian thing. i was born here. 5 generations to portland and the surrounding area? i think that makes me native.

I moved here in February. Within a couple weeks, I landed a $16/hr temp job calling people for Kaiser. Then a recruiter dragged me kicking and screaming into a full-time salary job in the Pearl.

I'm three years out of college. In the meantime (in other cities) I've driven cab and schlepped web stuff for a porn company. So when I landed my current gig I felt like Portland was the city of opportunities.

Samuel:

Him:So, you’re a native Portlander now, eh? Me: [shocked] Uh, I guess so. I’ve been here since April 2006. I guess I am. Yeah.

I think he was using the expression "Native Portlander" as an exaggeration. I was. But you're right. It reminds me of the time we ripped up the duct tape, and this woman rang up saying:

"You're welcome to come to my city any time you like. But don't go knocking our traditions because you don't agree with them. If you don't like it, find somewhere else to live."

That's Portland all over, in my book.

I moved here from Nebraska in 2005 with my partner of 7 years. We wanted to get away from the conservative republican state that I was born and raised in. We looked at Seattle as a possible place to live but enjoyed the size of Portland, and after having road tripped to scout the city out we fell in love with Portland and its people.

We were both lucky to have found jobs and are working towards getting our first house in a few years. We're still happy with our decision to move to PDX and we tell our friends both here and back in Nebraska that on a regular basis. The people are great, there's lots to do, and there's a sense of community Portland shares that's different from what I've experienced before.

I can't say I'm a native, but I'm sure as hell PROUD to live here now.

Damn you, Davis!

I had to read like 400 words until I caught this... "Suffice to say, he was pretty interested"

And after this tantalizing opener... So the two of us, my wife’s friend and I, went for a drink in the bar of the Hotel Lucia, sans my wife, on Broadway.

I thought this was going to be an INTERESTING story - but no! No, you had to go rambling on about politics... sheesh.

Is this the Portland Mercury or the Portland Tribune? Geez, man.

I moved here in 1999 after growing up in the sprawl-choked Midwest.

Portland is green, walkable, bikeable, and rainy. In 20 minutes you can be in an old growth rain forest. People here didn't automatically think growth was a good thing and that may be why Portland might appear stunted to others.

One reason Portland is smaller is geography - an inland upriver port instead of a port on the coast (Seattle, NYC, SFO).

It's a pretty American thing to think of cities competing like this. Do you think Florence worries about how it never became as big as Rome?

Other cities look to the Pearl, the Streetcar, the bike lanes and want to do that. I'm not saying that Portland has all the answers, but people here try to figure it out. It's not the city that works, but the city that's workin' on it.

The unemployement rate is low - 5.4%. NYC's is 5.7%, Seattle 4.7%. Unemployment is usually higher than the national average because some people move here without jobs. Getting good jobs is a challenge everywhere as the national gov't keeps offshoring our high-pay industries.

Walk around large parts of downtown Los Angeles and there aren't people out either.

I'd say the biggest difference between Portland and the other big cities - status obsession.

In NYC, after dark everyone is going to the hot restaurant or club to see or be seen; going out at 10pm after working their 6th 14-hour day in a row.

In Portland we're playing kickball, knitting, opening a gallery, hiking up Tabor, having a pint in the neighborhood. We don't give a shit about getting the big promotion at work, because it means we won't have time for to volunteer at Guide Dogs for the Blind or play that game of ultimate frisbee. Portland doesn't attract people who have that drive to be #1. People like that go to NYC.

Your friend's got you looking at Portland with New York eyes. Go have an IPA. You'll feel better.

Kari: I forgot to mention. After the drinks we had sex and I felt really guilty about it. Satisfied?

[Note to my wife: Not really. What in fact happened was, a giant hole opened in the ground and we were both sucked into it. In the hole, we met an old professor who told me the reality I was living in was in fact a part of his imagination and that now, I was destined to come back "under ground." But I told him I couldn't, because of you. And he let me go.]

Either way I know it's boring as fuck. Sorry.

If I was an American (and had been able to land a well-paying full time job in my field) I would still be living in Portland. It's the best city I've lived in, I think because it's smallish but with all the cultural life of a big city. I never felt lost or invisible there, even when I moved there on my own, not knowing a single person. I find the people more open-minded and generous, and I love the small scale, which feels like something you can take on alone without being swallowed up.

The first time I visited P-town, an usually warm and sunny October day, I overheard two people on the street saying "Isn't it a beautiful day? Aren't we lucky to live here?" That's when I knew I had to move there.

*UNusually*

i agree with green peas. the east coast attitude can't comprehend daytime outdoor activity...only pretentious nightlife decorated with obnoxious handbags.

If you moved here in 2006, you're not a native. Don't kid yourself.

If I want to claim to be, you can't stop me. Ha ha!

Yes, don't come in and mess with Matt's tradition of calling himself a native.

Matt:

I think he was using the expression "Native Portlander" as an exaggeration. I was. But you're right. It reminds me of the time we ripped up the duct tape, and this woman rang up saying:

"You're welcome to come to my city any time you like. But don't go knocking our traditions because you don't agree with them. If you don't like it, find somewhere else to live."

Ahh, yes, Portland-style parochialism. Nothing like it anywhere else. Thankfully. And I say that aware of the irony of being fully in love with my home town at the same time.

And I have to restrain myself from getting started on the "tradition" (that didn't exist 10 years ago) of hogging public space on the parade route...okay, restraint now...ahh. Got it. Suffice to say that you guys are still my heroes for doing that–and I've been a resident of Portland for nearly 21 years.

I moved here in February. Within a couple weeks, I landed a $16/hr temp job calling people for Kaiser. Then a recruiter dragged me kicking and screaming into a full-time salary job in the Pearl.

I'm three years out of college. In the meantime (in other cities) I've driven cab and schlepped web stuff for a porn company. So when I landed my current gig I felt like Portland was the city of opportunities.

Gawd, I hate it when things work out for other people without trying...I'm still trying to land a junior graphic designer job after two years of trying.

I so damn envy you. Just sayin'

December 2005 here. I always say (and this was equally true in Austin, TX, where I lived for most of 14 years) you only have to live somewhere for two weeks before you start complaining about how much better it used to be, "back when I first moved here."

What are the dream jobs people are after? I have met people who love living in Portland because they can play, but thier dream job is working in the film industry. I don't think Portland is where they should start that career. If you want high finance, maybe NYC is the place.
I guess I'm saying that one needs to look for the start of the dream job where it works best and then come back to Portland to establish ones self.
I've live here all my life, so yeah, I'm a native. My parents were teachers and I guess I had some opportunities. Yet, with a BA in History, one doesn't find too many high paying jobs. So I went with the flow in my 20's and found a career I like. Lucky me.
I think Portland is rad - yes, small, but still Rad. In SFO or LAX or NYC, I don't think I could get into the venues to see my favorite touring bands. Here, there are 200 people for a show @ Doug Fir. That to me is why I stay. Boy do I know how not to make a point.

Also Matt, the bathroom is coming along nicely, thank you.

Would that be the Turkish bathroom from Ikea, Diesel? YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS!

bike racks. 3pm.

Try visiting your friend in NY and turning the tables: ask about cost of living or restaurants that grow their own ingredients or quality of air/water or local beer/wine/coffee or the overrated crapheap that is the Strand book store. Then leave him scratching his head and picking up the tab, which will be five times what those same drinks cost here.

New Yorkers are the most parochial people in the world -- and I say this as someone who grew up there and has lived in London and Los Angeles, too. You got suckered into a mug's game, Matt.

I'm sorry, but compared to other large American cities, this place is fucking Narnia. And some part of you has to know that. I moved here four years ago from Las Vegas, where I was born and raised, and still not a day goes by that I don't marvel at how awesome Portland is. How NOT VEGAS it is. I guess when you grow up in a conservative, redneck-run city that has no respect for the arts or its own history (I defy you to find a building in Vegas over 30 years old), where the city's answer to the homeless problem is to force homeless people to live in underground storm drains (where many of them die during flash-flood season) so the tourists on the Strip don't have to look at them, and where acts of police brutality in poor neighborhoods are so common the news doesn't even bother reporting them anymore, you sometimes have to wonder just what it is Portlanders are bitching about. I mean, Jesus, you live in Hobbiton, people! It ain't that bad here!

Portland is, at Patton Oswalt put it, "this little bubble of sanity in the middle of, just, shit", and it just seems like the people who live here constantly take it for granted. Personally I can deal with a slightly depressed economy if it means I get to live in a beautiful city surrounded by culture, independent businesses, and awesome (albeit malcontented) people.

I love that this post has 25 comments on it and the rest have less than 10. that says something right there don't ya think?

-pdx since 2002

"Personally I can deal with a slightly depressed economy if it means I get to live in a beautiful city surrounded by culture, independent businesses, and awesome (albeit malcontented) people."

And there we have it. The point of Portland, in 30 words! Thanks, Beaton! I guess by bitching about the place I'm finally a native, after all. But I don't have to like it.

3 years later, Portland is still just as great as I ever thought it was.

Portland is home to fewer "independent businesses" than any other sizable west coast city. look it up.

Portland is the least affordable bit city on the West Coast, based on per capita income. look it up.

Portland's growth rate is higher than both LA and Seattle. look it up.

and that's just for starters. more later.

where are these cities with lively "downtowns"? not new york. wall street? mid town? anywhere there are tall buildings at night? sleepier then downtown portland at night.

and thats the liveliest downtown i can think of.

heck, on a sunday at 5 in the financial district in SF, you can walk around for a half hour and not see another human.

What's a financial district, George? It's been so long since I saw one...

I laugh more, smile more, have cute girls smile at me more, and have more fun here that anywhere else I've lived. Wheeee!

Thanks Portland!

That's nice that you want us to do the legwork that would prove your claims.

You'll learn.

Matt, you seem like a good enough sort, but this is just idiocy. PDX is not like NYC and no one wants it to be. There are plenty of jobs (for example, you appear to have one yourself) and opportunities, plenty of places to go, plenty of interesting people to meet. If you just got out of your little world and walked around, maybe you wouldn't think otherwise.

Maybe Portland isn't big enough for you, maybe you need to live someplace you're capable of appreciating for having "financial districts" as if that's any measure of a city.

I moved here from NYC in 1997. I was only making $8.50 an hour at the time, but in Portland, that meant I could still have decent living conditions, still go out to eat every so often, and, on occasion, I could actually get out of the city if I wanted. In NYC, that would have been unthinkable.

I've actually had better luck finding jobs in Portland than I did in NYC because there aren't 10,000 other people competing for the same position. Both my current and my previous companies took a bit of a gamble on me because I didn't have all the required skills for the job, and in both cases, I think that gamble really paid off (well, that's what I'd like to think, anyway). You would never see that kind of patience in a much bigger city because, as I say, there are 10,000 other candidates who have more experience, better connections and are a better interview than you are.

Portland is small enough so that you can make a difference, but big enough for that difference to really matter. I think it's the perfect place for people from small towns who want a little more variety and action in their lives, or for people from big cities who don't want to lose too many cultural amenities but are sick of the hassle and the financial drain that comes with big-city living.

It's been 10 years, and I still love it.

Think of Portland as the Living Room. You know, Pioneer Square is Portland's living room so maybe Portland is the US's living room: Not as large as other rooms, but showy. Comfortable for visitors and those who live there. A place where some of the business gets done, but rarely the stuff which requires scale.
As far as jobs go: I worked for TriMet and it showed me the side of the city which can only be described as despairing. I never had a great job in Portland. It is one of those places where the native sons and daughters always get passed over for the Ivy League cache of people from "Back East." Definately no safety net, especially for natives. But why hire someone with an local degree when so many people from Boston or Big Ten regions are pouring themselves in?
Which is why I got out.
Love Ya, Rose City!

I definitely agree with Green Peas' take on Portland.

My wife and I arrived here four years ago and we're not leaving anytime soon. We both got public sector jobs in the burbs but we live in SE Portland. I escaped the Talibaptists of South Carolina to live here.

There's so much we love about Oregon and Portland and there's some things I hate about the state. As a public high school teacher I HATE the backwards-ass inititative system. Damn you to Hell Progressive Era!! Some things are incredibly progressive here (e.g., bike culture, mass transit, UGB, etc.), however, some things aren't--Bill Sizemore and his ilk.

Portland is probably the only place I have ever lived where I feel so happy to return here from traveling somewhere else. Our amazing airport probably helps with that as well, but there's something about this place, this state that is truly special. I never felt that way aboutmy home state or other places I have lived in the South.

I love it here.

Portland should adopt a new motto. I suggest:

The city for underachievers who want a little more variety and action in their lives.

I agree with most of what's been said, good and bad. I think there's so many terrific specific qualities about Portland that make it one of the best cities in the Galaxy!

What strikes me most, tho, is how unique the city is, as an individual entity. I think geography and climate are the biggest factors, keeping us rooted to the hills, Hood and the rivers by sight, to the earth by rain, and air by mist (stretch?). Basically, we are constantly reminded of Portland's greatness wherever we look. These "aesthetics" attract a certain people, and the lack of "high-end" jobs keeps the me-me's away. Think of this: what if Portland was flat? What if it was dry like Arizoner? What if it was half water-locked or the trees were scrawny and all gray and twiggy all winter? Would it be the same place?

Also unique, I think, is the city's size and history. There's really no other city like Portland in terms of size and scope in the US, especially in non-bible belt areas (God, save us from...). Other cities - pick one - have already "popped", some long ago, and at pretty fast rates. Portland is taking it slow, a more sustainable and organic approach, of course for millions of reasons, amoung them luck/fate/history/whatever. This has allowed the awesome people living here to work with changes as they occur. At this point, I see Portland as a town that grew into a big town that we might as well call a city. We were the little village that sold the big ones their wood or machine parts or (fill in the blank) products that they used very well to make the big bucks! I think we do that still, to this day, by exporting culture as well as some manufacturing, tech, services, etc. Just now we are a big-town city but one of very few that doesn't suck!

OK, maybe at this point I'm rambling, but basically, I think Portland rocks,and I am so very lucky to live here. Maybe it's a taste thing, too. You know, like there's a guy or girl that you know is smokin' for so many reasons. Not everyone might see them that way, they may even think you are a little weird for thinking so, but it doesn't matter, you know you are on to something. Hot!!!!

-Peas

So, basically, Matt, your friend asked you to defend the city of Portland and, in the space of a single, pregnant, Harold Pinter-esque pause, you came to the conclusion that it was indefensible. This, after reacting to his previous questions about the city with a half-embarrassed "Yeah, well..."

Do you think maybe your job has ruined Portland for you?

Seriously.

Maybe the nature of your work, which largely involves pointing out the city's flaws (work we're all grateful for, by the way), has conditioned you to ONLY see flaws. Whereas some look at Portland and see the music and the sense of community and the cool, liberal atmosphere, you only see the Sit/Lie ordnance, the unemployment figures, and the (I guess) lack of nightlife. Kind of like how cops start painting everyone they see as criminals after too many years spent on the force.

Not saying you should quit your yucky job, slip on a pair of rose-colored glasses, and go skipping through the flowers with the rest of us Pollyannas, but you do seem rather quick to dismiss the good things about Portland and dwell on the bad ones.

And I suppose that makes sense, considering.

Good Christ! Perhaps you're right, Beaton.

Although on the Liberal atmosphere, it does amaze me that City Council will do anything to facilitate a new bike path or something "sustainable," yet when it comes to nutting up to protect the rights of the homeless, well, they pick their battles.

You're right, maybe my job HAS ruined Portland for me. But if my job is to cover the parts of Portland everybody's too fun-loving to probe into, well then, maybe there's something pretty Portland about my job.

[shakes head]
[pauses pregnantly again]
[doesn't know what to write next]

Help!

How about telling those people...don't worry about it, and perhaps you should tell others your dislike for it.

Please, who cares about justifying Portland to people who automatically assume bad things...

try this one: perhaps you should read ask that to the NYT, your "paper of record" since they're on us like white fish on bagels (change this to a different analogy for the non New Yorkers) every week it seems.

i always forward this article to friends when they ask why i hate portland ....... sums it all up .....

http://www.joelkotkin.com/Urban_Affairs/Oregonian%20-%20Portland%20lost%20in%20its%20own%20reflection.htm

Oh, yeah, Joel Kotkin. The guy who rated Newark, New Jersey as one of the top 10 places to "do business" in America.

Maybe if your business is murder.

The fun thing about growing up in PDX was entertaining ourselves with stuff like climbing the towers of the Steel Bridge late at night, before they installed the barbed wire-topped gate on the stairs (nightwatchperson sleeping in the glow of a portable TV), and hangin' with your friends, taking in the quietly blinking city with a 3am breeze.
I still see this town that way, but with some less risky thrill-seeking now that I'm old(er).
It seems that a couple of things some bigger city folks don't get about Portland is that 1)it really can be a 24-hour playground- you just have to be willing to get outdoors and do your own thing and, 2)even if there's seemingly nothing going on in the center of town, there's always something happening in any one of the many nooks and crannies of our fair burg, you just have to know where to look.
There's no secret to 'get' about Portland, and no reason to have to defend it.

The thing that has changed most about this place in the past 6 or 7 years is the loss of it's totally run-down seedy vibe, and the loss of the ultra-affordable housing that came with it. When the rent somewhere is a few hundred dollars a month, it attracts all kinds of people and things.

They tore down tha crumbling hotel where "Drugstore Cowboy" was filmed a while after I finally moved here. The "Church of Elvis" died around then, too. The anarchist center at 2nd and Burnside ? Gone, just like "Psycho Safeway" and that sleazy whorehouse across the street from the Matador, where they sold heroin right out onto the street from the windows.

Oh, I see a little of that dirty action going on on Burnside at night, amidst the beggars hounding the yuppies, but nothing like it used to be, and nothing like it was before I came here, I hear.

Matt, you might have really enjoyed walking around MLK and Alberta or lower East Burnside back then, around 3:00 in the morning. Those areas almost resembled crummy neighborhoods in a real city. Well, people got stabbed and shot and overdosed and stuff constantly. The area in Chinatown around Hung Far Low was really entertaining, too. As was North Interstate before the MAX came in, as well as Mississippi, when both were much more active "Ho Strolls," with constant gang violence, loud shouting, breaking glass, and all of the usual cheap rent and drama you find in places like that.

The real old-timers tell me about the days when NW 21st was still sleazy, as well as when the skinhead gangs beat the shit out of anyone and everyone in Belmont/Hawthorne, until they made the national news.

It's too bad Portland Monthly didn't exist back then.

TOP 50 PLACES TO GET BEATEN UP BY SKINHEAD GANGS.

Niiiice.

The biggest difference between today and 5-10+ or so years ago is simple - Portland has become overrun with people who are sanctimonious, stuck up, unfriendly. The cost of living is up a little, the skinheads are gone/hiding out, still no real job market.

I would say this: Portland is a place for people to come and be cool when they cannot/haven't hacked it in a real urban city. Unfortunately, Portland gets this "urban" mark despite being 99.987 white and having only minimal non-white cultural influences. I grew up here (soon to be leaving, thanks) and I feel terrible for some of the people I've met who got duped into moving here for the urbanism.

"I feel terrible for some of the people . . ."

Yeah, I believe it. You sound like a very compassionate person.

I just got back from 6 days in Chicago and rural Wisconsin. Chicago was a blast and definitely an amazing city. But, I couldn't wait to get home. It's the little things I noticed that irked me. Garbage everywhere... no one seems to recycle out there. Everyone smokes everywhere. Cabs, cafes, smokiest bars ever. I don't mind hanging out at dive bars but this really surprised me. Everything was a little dirtier, smelled worse, harder to commute in. I guess I'm not really trying to justify Portland but damn I was relieved to be home.

Good points Matt, especially: Portland is "...where people come to relax from Seattle, or LA, or New York." One day though, it'll be not too different from those cities, like it or not. I would go all in on a pair deuces that Portland would probably become a lot more like L.A.: high-density corridors carving through a sea of low-density, low-rise (read single family housing) neighborhoods. And current addictions unchanged, most of us will to continue drive and clog roadways. And love to complain about it. (Personally, I find traffic quite amusing). Most of us, too, will willingly embrace a mortgage in exchange for a bungalow or a four-square with something of a yard. (BBQs and badminton... oh so much fun!) And weekends at The Home Despot... oh so much fun! To change our habits, some might even say strange ways, the way most of us live, will be like coming down from a heroin trip. Maybe worse. Bad drug analogies aside, Portland isn't all that bad. But it ain't "all that" either. Portland, as one 2nd-tier academic describes it, is at the intersection of urban and suburban. Neither nor. In not so different terms (from Matt's), it is a place where once gritty urbanites come to escape the grit of real urban places ($1450 rent for a studio, all too strange tongues, gridlock, overpriced water, and blow by the boatloads) and where suburbanites come to escape tending sod. Oh, and by the way, I like Portland just swell. And I suppose I'm a native by now, too. I've been here since 2001. A transplant from Southern California. L.A. if you wish. Cheers!

Richard - Why the personal attack dude? Do you know me? Stay at the discussion bub. If you don't like something I gotta say, move the hell one or address it thoughtfully. Attack ones person (on a internet discussion forum) is so very Portland of you.

Go home, Matt. Portland is not for you.

Now we're getting into it. That's more like it. You're all bastards! I'll take you all on!

I love a nice, reasoned discussion. Preferably in a bar, Begbie-style.

Calm down everyone.

F-that! I say we keep Matt and deport Scott to L.A. You are awesome Matty boy. Just don't think you will be able to find any other respectable, non government job in this town.

"Why the personal attack dude? Do you know me?"

I wasn't attacking you personally, Dude. I was pointing out that your apparent bitterness and gross, damning generalizations about a city full of people--e.g., "Portland has become overrun with people who are sanctimonious, stuck up, unfriendly"--seem a tad unfriendly. And that's very un-Portland of you.

Okay, fine. I'm the Portland apologist here, but, to be fair, there are small-towny things about it that bug the shit out of me, too. Example:

On the bus home from work yesterday I noticed this huge pawn shop on NE 28th and Sandy (the name escapes me) with a giant wall of guitars visible through the window. I pulled the cord and hopped out to go check out the prices. The shop was closed. This was 5:45 on a Monday afternoon. I checked the posted hours, thinking maybe I'd come back Saturday. Turns out they're closed on Saturdays. And Sundays. Aaaaaaand weekdays after 5PM.

Now, being from Vegas, I still have a hard time getting my brain around the concept of last call, or supermarkets that close at 11, but a pawn shop that keeps banker's hours and is closed on weekends? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Beyond just being inconvenient, it seems like a really bad way to run a pawn shop.

It made me think of the Hollywood Burger Bar, which has awesome burgers but is only open, like, four hours a day. Or that little diner across the street from Tiny's on Hawthorne, which NEVER seems to be open. And all the other places I've been to since moving here that keep business hours that make no earthly sense, and are really only SUGGESTIONS of when the proprietors will be there, anyway. Places that are closed on Mondays. Or Tuesdays. Or -- fuck it! -- whenever!

It's entirely retarded. And entirely Portland.

I got a couple cool jobs (for which I barely qualified, and from which I'll gain a lot of experience) right after I moved here. I think the job market is swell. (except! I spent the previous year doing freelance journalism, covering the gold mining beat for a couple newspapers... and for some reason I couldn't land a job at a portland paper.)

The thing that bugs me the most about here is how often I run across conversations evaluating the personality of the city. I hear it, or read it, every day. Why are people so preoccupied with assigning, and then disagreeing with, a definition for the entire city and all its inhabitants? I just don't really see the function; it seems more destructive than constructive. I've had to stop hanging out with certain friends because they kept sucking me into conversations about how it's the city's fault that their life in their apartment and on their way to meals lacks this or that. boring!

Matt, I've had plenty of friends who don't live here unload similar questions on me. I've stopped caring about defending the place. I think it's more important to worry about what you'll bring to your surroundings.

And I've been living here since February, but I've spent the entire time totally depressed about how I'll never ever be able to label myself a native. I mean, sometimes I wish I could start my life over. Or maybe we can start a "NonNatives are NowNatives" bumpersticker campaign.

You're a funny one Mizzle! You say: "Portland has become overrun with people who are sanctimonious, stuck up, unfriendly." and "I would say this: Portland is a place for people to come and be cool when they cannot/haven't hacked it in a real urban city" and lastly, but most importantly: "I grew up here (soon to be leaving, thanks)."

So let me make sure I understand this right. Since you grew up here, but HAVEN'T yet moved out of Portland, it sounds to me like you're one of "those sanctimonious, stuck up unfriendly" people who "cannot/haven't hacked it in a real urban city."

I've heard people complain before, but rarely have I heard them complaining about themselves.

Portland is po dunk, anyone who wishes to say otherwise is the reason I do indeed dislike this city. Also, housing prices remain exceptionally high here because it is a yuppie wonderland...and will only get worse. It's great not having to wait in line for anything, traffic isn't bad, laughable people for days on end with dragon tats and terrible beards.

...I look down from Seattle and chuckle...

This is the begining of the end. As it was here, so it will be there.

No need to send anyone to L.A. ...we are L.A.... in that city's youth.

Portland is in it's "'tween" years. Awkward. Figuring itself out. It works on some levels. Not so on others. (MAX line that seems to stop every fifty feet.) Much remains to be seen. We're slowly growing out of our small towness.

About jobs: There are plenty of respectable jobs, just not many that most people want.

Affordability: overall, Portland is still relatively affordable, just not in the neighborhoods most people want to live in. East Portland rocks! To some.

About "podunk"... it isn't so bad, is it?

Gee, Cabbie:

Alot of times I think you're an asshole.
Not today, your post was nice trip down the plank road that serves as memory lane around here.
I almost got all misty-eyed and nostalgiac thinking about the hardcore show where Kyle Brewster was kicked in the stomach by one of the Eastside Fists and decided then and there that if he couldn't beat 'em, he'd at least form a successor gang that was even more fucked up.
Tell you what, I came into some investment capital recently, if you help me figure out how to serve up a dogshit sandwich to the likes of the ghost of Reyner Blowham and make some money off it... you're in.

Anyone who thinks Portland is anything like Los Angeles has either never been to Los Angeles or never been to Portland.

Also, I dont understand how people can complain about Portland being expensive. Portland is probably the only city in the US worth living in where you can work minnimum wage and have a realtivley decent life.

Portland as it is today isn't literally L.A. today.

Rather, Portland as it is today isn't all that different from L.A. when it was at 1/2-million people (in the city). Just consider it for a moment, if you disagree.

Given the dominant lifestyle (get around primarily by car and live in a single family house) market forces, price of oil (inexpensive relative to the rest of the world), current implementable local and national policies, relationships with neighboring jursidictions, the future of Portland, as a city and a region, is on the trajectory of becoming an L.A. type city and region (as it is today) than most of us would like to think.

If you look closer at the development pattern of the city over the years, there a lot more similarities between L.A. and Portland than there are differences. (Again, outside of downtown, I point to single-family neighborhoods bounded, almost protected, by higher intesity uses on arterial streets.) Take a drive out on Powell Blvd., Airport Road, 122nd Avenue or Milwaukie. You'll see what most people dislike about L.A. in Portland. In the end of it all, Portland is at a point where it is struggling to not become L.A. As a city (forget the region!--the region is worse--might as well be Phoenix!), Portland is trying hard to become a lot more like Amsterdam or Copenhagen. (Get on your bike already!)

Portland's gaining population, in a growth period. Growing up if you will. More people want to come here. It's cheaper than all the other west coast cities. The increased demand for housing but limited supply in preferred areas drives up rents in those areas. You can still find really ultra-affordable places in East Portland. But again, still cheaper relative to the rest of the west coast. But not as cheap as what long-time residents are used to.

In the end, Portland is a pretty rad city and people--especially young people--across the country are noticing. They'd rather come here because they can work a minimum wage job until they find their ideal job and still have a life. Harder to do in Seattle, San Francisco, L.A., Chicago or NY.

Nostalgia won't protect Portland from change. It is going to change, for better or for worse. I guess it depends on who you ask. And as change happens, Portland will grow to become more like the prototypical American city so many of us love to hate. Portland's bloodlines are much closer to L.A.'s than those other cities to which we would prefer to be compared.

By the way, I've never had a dogshit sandwich. I suppose it is a favorite meal of Mr. Mayne's if he's so willing to serve it.

matt, most east coasters are uncomfortable with the informality and simplicity portland provides which grants its residents and visitors to be themselves. visitors often find themselves questioning certain aspects of their own towns and perhaps try to make pdx natives or other adoptees as uncomfortable as they are by pointing the finger and putting us on the defense. the only true answer is "if you don't get it, you don't get it."

this city IS one giant safety net in and of itself. pdx will not let you falter completely - that is one reason why there are so many homeless here - they migrate just like everyone else. i'm not ignoring the fact that housing prices are high - i'm just saying a certain percentage move here because of the services provided.

more importantly, this is a city of citizens more than any other city i have been a part of. it has been that way for quite a while and grassroots brotherhood grows with every newcomer (eventually). look at things like city repair - perhaps other cities do things like that but look at the impact that initiative has made in creating community and even changing public laws in pdx.

not only that but the people here are generous and welcoming, even if they try to act tough and say "thanks for visiting." drinking bull run water makes you part of the family. i have gone months in pdx without a job before and i may again, but i have seen many people get back on their feet by moving here. i have never witnessed anybody who just couldn't make it and decide to leave. those who left had other reasons and in some cases, they just didn't get it.

when i said simplicity earlier, i only meant that most people in pdx aren't motivated by money or status. we have different values, such as clean air and water and trying to be decent people, not only for ourselves but for those around us and those to follow us. its not arrogance. its the sincerest form of humility.

if Portland is to become something even remotely like
los angeles this is what you have to look >>>> 2
urban sprawl continued ..
www.wrobertangell.blogspot.com

if Portland is to become something even remotely like
los angeles this is what you have to look >>>> 2
urban sprawl continued ..
www.wrobertangell.blogspot.com

The other day at a party a friend's buddy, whom I just met, pulled me aside and said, "I heard you work at a graphic design firm; I'm really intrigued by that line of work. I'd be really good at it, if you ever hear of any openings. But I don't want to work with any clients that I don't believe in. Like, the clients have to be really ethical -- hopefully sustainable and green. And I want to be able to have a personal life. Like, I don't want to work weekends or late nights. And I have to respect everybody I work with. So, let me know if you hear of anything."

All noble requests, I guess. But when you have thousands of people expressing -- scratch that, they're demanding -- the same dreams, you might not find a good job market. Why? Companies generally like to hire people that are hungry: people who feel lucky to have a job. Portland is about work-life balance, with life often winning out over work. That can work fine in a socialist country, but we're not one.

If we want jobs, we'll have to collectively change our attitudes about work and our relationships with employers. Otherwise, we'll continue to be a city comprised mainly of small businesses (that often get acquired) and government jobs. Cities with many jobs, like NYC, have many people working 12-hour days, six days per week. Could you envision that for Portland?

Matt, if you want to sound like a true "Native Portlander" just bitch about people from California all the time.

Well done, guys, you've turned Blogtown into Bojack.

These discussions never fail to bring the haters, backbiters and provincial nostalgists (if only there were more crack whores on Burnside! life was sweeter then...) out in droves.

My brother wanted to be the top in his field - architecture - so he moved from our midwest city to NYC, worked his way up and is working internationally. He also works from 7am to 10pm 6 days a week. If you want that life you move to NYC or Los Angeles.

It's just that Portlanders don't define who they are by what they achieve in career.

I think we live more subtle lives here.

It seems Portland's motto is: "Don't Live to Work. Work to Live."

Wow. The only path to success is to give up everything for work? That's the American spirit in action, all right. That's why if I didn't live in Portland I'd probably move to another country.

I moved to Portland in 1999, and at the time it seemed like everyone I met had lived here for 2-3 years already. Now when I meet people I'm usually the one who's lived here the longest. Hard for me to believe.

In terms of jobs, everyone I know is juggling day jobs to support their passion, be it bands/film/theatre/gardening. What's awesome about Portland is you can make that work pretty well -- you can live in a decent place, you can find other people who share your passion, you can troubleshoot the problems that arise from being young penniless artists.

The downside is that hardly anyone I know is making a living as an artist, and that gets old after a while. It becomes tempting to move somewhere that costs more, maybe, and demands more from you, but also gives you a shot at a real career.

I don't know. I'm always in this tug of war with Portland. It reminds me of Berlin, and I wish we could move more in that direction -- lots of crazy projects, lots of arts and culture funding, lots of squats and 24 hour cafes, and still pretty chill. Sometimes I think that's possible; sometimes I think we're doomed to lose everything that makes Portland worth it without gaining any of the benefits that come from being a 'real' city.

See this is why the debate club about gentrification should have lasted longer! lets do another one! :)
i love that so many people feel strongly enough to comment on this.

bitching about californians is soo twenty years ago.

Here are some facts. Draw your own conclusions about livability:

Unemployment Rates
Portland: 4.5%
Seattle: 4.2%
San Francisco: 4.1%
New York: 4.7%

Per Capita Income/Median Family Income
Portland: $26,487/$46,450
Seattle: $32,568/$49,284
San Francisco: $40,605/$66,662
New York: $24,947/$43,515

Median Home Price/Ownership Rate
Portland: $290,000/52.59%
Seattle: $489,200/45.18%
San Francisco: $750,000/32.76%
New York: $519,400/28.47%

Overall Cost of Living (as % of national avr)
Portland: 109.09
Seattle: 131.98
San Francisco: 187.23
New York: 164.50

As a person who's lived here for the better part of twenty years, let me tell you...

Well, what's to be said that hasn't been said already? Being the place where everyone else wants to move is fantastic because it consistently brings in The New, but every other day I have the pleasure of listening to some bright bulb castigating me for my lack of decent bagels, barbecue, New York style pizza...
If I move to the east coast (which I won't) and spend all my precious time complaining about the terrible Atlantic salmon (which it is), folks have every right to shoot me in the fucking head.

As I was saying over at the cupcake smackdown discussion: Portland consistently tries to slide by on charm alone, and then utterly fails to charm. That said, we have a lot of fine things here that I suspect just aren't available (or encouraged) elsewhere.
It's a shitty place to find a job (though we all seem to, I've noticed), but a wonderful place to start and independent business. It's still racially segregated, just no longer by governmental fiat, instead by market prices...

Too much to say. Portland, like any other city, has good things about it and bad things about it. Being a stupid nativist is poisonous to us all-there were already plenty of douchebags here before we became a retirement wonderland for Californians-and spending all your time complaining about this place you moved to by choice makes you look like a fucking crybaby.

And the idea that any sort of objective truth is going to arise on this subject, in this space? Yer Dreaming.

Something very important to remember is that LA didn't just happen. LA is the product of a conscious shift from light-rail to a freeway infrastructure, at the same time that the city was emphasizing low-density suburban expansion. 40 years later, we have a mess of a city. Saying that Portland will turn into LA is saying that a kid'll become a sex criminal because he's going through puberty. Portland is on the right track to prevent LA's mistakes, and just needs good parenting to become a wonderful adult.