Whatever. Don't ever trust armed men in uniform.

If a cop asks to search your car, say "only if I can search yours"

The pigs in this town make it a habit to prey on people who may not know that they don't have to subject themselves to interrogation just because they happened to be walking alone on a street at night.

There is absolutely no difference between the fucking portland police and the fucking gestapo in Nazi Germany.
I'd rather be accused of being a little "aloof" than sacrificing my civil rights to a bunch of uneducated fascist punks.

If all cops were good cops, then of course I'd blindly comply with all their requests... Sadly, though.. it's not the case, and some of them like crushing people to death, pinning women down on stoves, and the like.

"There is absolutely no difference between the fucking portland police and the fucking gestapo in Nazi Germany."

Oh, give me a fucking break.

Yes. Please.

There are three or four of these on telephone poles at SE Powell & 71st/72nd.

O.K. Dave, the portland police detain people randomly, demand identification, and beat the fuck out of people just because they feel like it. They focus their persecution on the minority population. They tase and shoot and break bones. Gestapo tactics are no stranger to the Portland Police!

RE: Nazis and Cops are the same... read your history moron... unless Gresham has changed since last time I was there the PPB have not recently sent anyone off to a gas chamber and oven, so get a fucking grip and quit with the drama and overstatement...
as far as whether to trust them or not, trust them right up till they start asking you questions that make you uncomfortable then ask if you can leave. if they are being polite and want to talk about the weather and how much the blazers suck there is no problem in that, its just when they start asking why you have mud on your boots and if you know anyone named Dr Richard Kimball that you should start worrying

John P.J; apparently you did not read my last post. Yes the PPD doesn't mass muder jews. Its an allegory! Thats ok though I forgive you.

I will make this simpler for you:

Portland Police Do in Fact use Gestapo tactics (See above).

Gestapo tactics are defined as "terroristic police methods or operations". And yes, the Nazi's did that too.

@10
The Nazis also made the trains run on time.

Do we accuse the Trimet of being Nazis?

Jonny - using a nazi name calling comparison means you automatically LOSE the debate. Weak.
Matt - nice work.

Respect is something that is earned.
The Portland Police Department has done nothing to earn respect -and everything to disavow it. Until they begin working to establish trust, they will not be treated as though they are honorable.
Gestapo tactics? Ive witnessed it with my own eyes right here in portland. All you have to do is pick up a newspaper.

@13- exactly. Why should I feel comfortable in having conversations with the cops when all around us we are witnessing brazen brutality and disregard for civilian rights? Until we can feel safe FROM our police then I don't really care about them possibly feeling undervalued.

Dk: America is not what they taught you in 2nd grade. Oppression is real in this country, and until people recognize this fact we will continue to undermine its relevance.

If the oppression you so crave were actually commonplace in this country, you wouldn't be around here to spout off about it.
Secondly you may want to revisit your history books for a definition of the Gestapo. 'Terroristic' isn't a word.

With respect, the PPB has done quite a bit to earn ours. It's the 1% of maniacs who deserve firing that I'm concerned about.

Do we really want to alienate the 99% of the rest of them?

Gestapo tactics are methods the police use to induce fear among the public. I think "terroristic" describes that action fundementally. The fact that you (DK) refuse to visit this coversation without asconding to trite dismissiveness, and the fact that you refuse to recognize the ovious fact that oppression is very real in this country means that YOU aoutmatically LOSE this debate.

I SEE a vagina in that picture. On a pole! Ha!

Gestapo tactics are methods the police use to induce fear among the public. I think "terroristic" describes that action fundementally. The fact that you (DK) refuse to visit this coversation without asconding with trite dismissiveness, and the fact that you refuse to recognize the ovious fact that oppression is very real in this country means that YOU aoutmatically LOSE this debate.

did i accidentally click on portland indymedia?

#10 *sighs*
"Gestapo tactics are defined as "terroristic police methods or operations". And yes, the Nazi's did that too."
what dictionary are you using?... and as someone else pointed out, Tarroristic is a bit like Comcastic, not really a word...
you are forgiven Jonny...
also, not to stomp on you while you are down, but Portland's Police are a Bureau, not a Department, which is why Matt (and others) always uses the acronym "PPB" instead of "PPD"...

Your right. What was I thinking. You go on - thinking everything is beutiful (AKA licking cops balls). Then when officers (or PPB as you prefer) decide to interrogate you for walking down 1st avenue at midnight and you think its a good idea to become a chatty cathy and then get the shit beat out of you we will try not to feel sorry for you. BUT we probably will any way. In fact I already do.

PPB not PPD? How bout PIG; Portlands Ignorant Gestapo

I don't want or need your sympathy, thanks.

i don't have anything to hide, but since i'm a white yuppie lady, the police know that and leave me the fuck alone.

if i were in a different demographic, i'd want to know when i had a right to walk away.

For a moment I thought I had clicked on the Tribune, but then I read the comments. This was a good read.

Matt, I routinely reject the "nothing to hide" argument and how it expects me to forfeit my right to privacy wherever applied. So you leave me with just two more arguments, ones that would have me wasting far too much of my life downtown for people who "just want a moment of my time."

Do you have any more arguments for me?

You don't have to read many police reports to notice a pattern: people don't understand their rights. Schools don't teach constitutional rights and police try to get around them.

Try riding your bike home at 2:00 through the neighborhood where these posters have been put up. If you're not pulled over for not having a light, you'll get put over for not signaling within 100' of a turn or some such pretext. Or maybe you'll get "mere conversationed." Either way the cops will be asking to search your backpack, your pockets and if you say no, the tickets will be worse and they'll end up searching you for "officer safety reasons."

They won't send you to the gas chambers. They aren't actually nazis and you'd be a dumbass to say so, but you are deluding yourself if you don't think that they are in the business of issuing citations and getting into your pockets. They are trained to ask questions in a way that avoids the citizen invoking any rights. You have the right not to talk to them and since they will, have and do twist your words you are better off not even talking about it. You have the right to not consent to a search and are better off if you do.

People are uneducated about their rights. The average high schooler would have no idea that they don't have to allow a search or talk to a cop looking to pin something on them. These posters are good if they increase knowledge of rights.

Don't ever trust people with the amount of power that cops have. Their biggest fear in life is losing that power.

Also, I can see one of those posters from where I drink my coffee in the morning. It makes me smile.

If they obeyed the law it wouldn't be a problem. If they weren't trying to induce fear it wouldn't be a problem. I like the gestapo analogy even if it is anecdoatal. By comparing the two it gets right to the magnitude of the problem. Its really all about power for them.

If they obeyed the law it wouldn't be a problem. If they weren't trying to induce fear it wouldn't be a problem. I like the gestapo analogy even if it is anecdotal. By comparing the two it gets right to the magnitude of the problem. Its really all about power for them.

Jonny, by talking about "them" as if "they" all behaved the same, your argument comes across no better than the racist who tells me how all black people are. Not all cops are the same. However, given your attitude, it wouldn't be surprising if every officer you met seemed like a jerk.

Remember when those cops shot a dude with a beanbag round and tased him just for videotaping their illegal search a few weeks ago?

It's probably a good idea to let people know their rights, since the cops obviously don't.

Matt,

So if it is one percent (and I'd guess it is closer to five percent) bad apples then why doesn't the bureau get rid of them? Doesn't the fact that the remaining 99% (or 95%, or whatever) have the investigatory power, intelligence, and in your opinion general decency to police themselves? If so doesn't the failure of the remaining 95% to actually enforce the law, regulations and ordinances against their fellow cops call into question their integrity?

If a basically decent cop refuses to go after, rat out, turn in, file complaints or "police" his bad apple brethren then maybe that cop is not so basically decent after all?

My comment will be a story:

A few years ago, I was walking across W Burnside to go see the Gogol Bordello show I'd been anticipating. A police car, obviously in a huge hurry but without the overhead lights running, blasted through the intersection against a red light, turning w/ no signal in front of me coming in my direction. For a second I thought I was going to be run over. I put up my hands and yelled, I'm fairly sure, "WHAT THE F___???"

A few blocks later, the officer with the bad driving stopped me and asked if I was the guy who yelled. I should have invoked my rights at this point! Here is one very good reason for not getting involved in a discussion with these power-tripping disgusting idiots. I suggested that the officer use lights when violating traffic laws to get to a crime scene. I also claimed, correctly, that I hadn't broken any laws. Well, what the officer wanted was an apology and I didn't give it to him, so I was cuffed and stuffed and brought to the drunk tank (CHIERS). Why there? For him to cite or arrest me, I'd have had to have committed a crime or at least infraction. Because he was mad at me and power-tripping about a stranger randomly calling him on his driving, he wanted to punish me so he claimed I was drunk and needed sobering. I was let out more or less immediately since the staff could see that I was completely sober, and though the delay and the long walk caused me to miss the opening band I at least got to see GB and get drunk in actuality. This is far from my only run-in with these monsters.

This poster is great! Matt, I would just like to make a few points.

1. It's entirely possible to invoke your rights without being aloof or snotty. Just assert yourself like you would with any other stranger you don't want to talk to.

2. Interacting with a cop isn't a normal human interaction. They talk to us as part of their job and that job is often at odds with us protecting ourselves.

3. As part of their job, cops are supposed to be self-assured. They need to follow the law no matter how valued they feel.

#1 I was driving to the a post office in Portland and pulled into the parking lot, went in and started addressing envelopes. A cop came inside and demanded that I follow him outside to talk with him. He accused me of ducking into the post office to hide from him (even though I had not been aware of him and he never had his lights on). I was detained for about 15 minutes while this cop ran me for warrants. And yes I had been very polite and friendly.

#2 I was waiting for the Max at Lloyd Center when a Trimet cop with a dip in his lip swaggered up to me and demanded my ID. I asked why and he accused me of riding my bike on the platform (in fact I did not ride my bike on the platform). I was polite, but he was a dick forced me to miss my Max and detained me for ten - 15 minutes while checking me for exclusions and warrants- even though I have a trimet pass. I had to wait 30 minutes for the next train.

#3 I was waiting for a bus late at night and stepped out into the street to look down the street for the bus. After I was back on the curb a cop showed up and ordered me out into the street and up to his car (he was too lazy to get out). He wanted to know what I was doing in "his street". Then he wanted to know who I was. I told him, and then the bus came so I politely excused myself. Another cop pulled alongside him, and they blocked the entire bus for five minutes while they checked ne for warrants.

When I refer to "them" for the sake of this argument it impies that we are speaking only of the bad apples that force us to be weary of the entire Police Beuro. It would be very nice if we could give them all the benefit of the doubt, but it is simply unsafe to do so.
It is also true that socialization among officers creates a culture where many of these negative attributes become accepted and "normal".

Oh boy, how I love this carnival of hilarity!

Everyone hates the cops. That is, until they need them.

"People are uneducated about their rights. The average high schooler would have no idea that they don't have to allow a search or talk to a cop looking to pin something on them. These posters are good if they increase knowledge of rights."

Agreed.

So if it is one percent (and I'd guess it is closer to five percent) bad apples then why doesn't the bureau get rid of them? Doesn't the fact that the remaining 99% (or 95%, or whatever) have the investigatory power, intelligence, and in your opinion general decency to police themselves? If so doesn't the failure of the remaining 95% to actually enforce the law, regulations and ordinances against their fellow cops call into question their integrity?

If a basically decent cop refuses to go after, rat out, turn in, file complaints or "police" his bad apple brethren then maybe that cop is not so basically decent after all?

Fair point, but put yourself in his shoes and get off your high horse. It's hard enough ratting out a fellow plagiarist in my workplace (joke, Alison, joke!), let alone another cop, knowing he might be the guy to save your life in the next ten minutes if you get into a gun battle. But yes, I would LOVE it if more cops ratted out their fellows. Although it's harder to imagine them turning on their own when everyone outside the organization hates their fucking guts.

1. It's entirely possible to invoke your rights without being aloof or snotty. Just assert yourself like you would with any other stranger you don't want to talk to.

2. Interacting with a cop isn't a normal human interaction. They talk to us as part of their job and that job is often at odds with us protecting ourselves.

3. As part of their job, cops are supposed to be self-assured. They need to follow the law no matter how valued they feel.

1.I'm English. When someone comes up to me and I don't want to talk to them, I'm usually polite. It's the way people from my country take control of the situation. Try it!

2.The cops are human beings and their job is to prevent crime. They talk to us to try to prevent crime and if we're assholes, their ego kicks in. I know how I'd rather react to a power-tripping cop—as an adult to a question from a spoilt child—by expecting better from them.

3.And so are journalists. And so are doctors. And so are spacemen. But there've been crazy journalists, serial killer doctors, and loony spacemen. It seems to me we're all holding police to this unnatainable divine standard we'd never expect of ourselves. So what? They have guns. They've got power. They're still people, and we're collectively responsible for how we all get on in the end.

I have days when I flat-out can't understand what motivates a man or woman to don a blue uniform, and days when I feel pretty similar to "Electric Jimbo" about the PPB. But today, I'm feeling different. It must be all the medication I've been taking.

Lastly, Jonny: Please don't take this the wrong way, but what's your criminal history? It's startling to me that an officer would accuse you of "trying to hide from him" without already knowing who you were. I'm not saying it's right, but it would help me to understand why you feel the cops seem to be targeting you for this kind of treatment.

Sadly, it is true that the cop thought I was ducking away from him. I was going to the airport post office but missed the left turn and was having a hard time getting to it. So when I was coming back around the other side I noticed I could get there from a different entrance so signaled rather quickly and "ducked" in. And yes I am a law abiding citizen who volunteers for my community and has a job. While these incidents occured over the last three years, from what I hear it sounds like standard operating procedure for the Portland Police. I don't think you have to be impolite to assert your rights when the situation calls for it, Matt.

It's interesting, however, that in my country, where we don't have a notion of a written constitution, the police are all far better behaved.

The minute you write the damn thing down and give guns to people to "uphold it," problems abound. It's like you create loopholes in people's consciences.

England has more CCTV cameras per square foot than any nation on earth, and yet, perversely, its citizens feel freer and more empowered than all of you here in America.

I have a problem talking about "rights," when they should be deeply internalized, along with our responsibilities.

As Winston Churchill said: "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."

I'm not arguing against your "right" to free speech—only that you should think about what it means before you use it.

fucking hippies.

I see your point Matt, but what this seems to be about is not letting the cops hassle us. Yes some people might want to have a conversation with a cop. But cops arent stopping people to chat about the weather. Most often letting yourself get hassled will result in lengthy delays, and probably a search of your backpack. By asserting your rights early on, you stand a much better chance of making it to work/home/mall/bar or wherever you are going on time.