I think 4th Ave is a much better street for a rename...or I would if I cared either way.

I do have to wonder though if this will end up being anything like the 6th Ave/Avenue of the Americas deal in NYC where only the tourists use the new name...

This is a victory for the vast majority of Portlanders who (even unconsciously) recognize the value of sense of place, and that Interstate Ave is an integral part of the city, it's history, culture, and inhabitants. Renaming 4th is a stupid idea, but it doesn't bother me as I will never call it anything other than what it is - 4th Avenue. The movement to rename Interstate is an ego-driven, misguided and self-defeating effort to ram the desires of a small group down the throats of everyone who lives and works near Interstate. To all the renaming proponents: go suck an egg, and build a statue if you want to honor someone.

Crying.
Fucking pathetic crying about a street named after a dead man from California.
This is the level of discourse you've elected Portland, keep it up.

A downtown street, especially 4th avenue, seems like a much more visible and fitting location to honor someone referred to as an American hero. Of course, Serena Cruz's tearful comments last night seem to indicate that Cesar Chavez is property of the Latino community (or whoever “us” is) and I'm not allowed to contribute to figuring out how to honoring him. I think her exact words were "they are trying to tell *us* how to honor *our* hero". I’ll continue to support honoring Cesar Chavez in Portland, but maybe my support isn’t welcome.

The "white man" has left the building.

Here is my beef about the RE-NAME - the behviour of the Chávez committee members..

I've attended all of the public meetings - and at one point was open to what they had to say.

The Chávez committee speaks/spoke with such distain and disrespect for the residents of North Portland. They didn't do their home work. They chose not to include the community AND this is what they get. DENIED!

The "white man" does not rule in North Portland (Beaverton perhaps). Take the Max to North Portland at 5:00 pm - it's filled with all the colors of the rainbow. Average, middle class, hard working, reasonable people - that stood up to the rather pushy, arrogant, disrespectful members of the Chávez committee and collectively said: "hey, stop being a jerk to NoPo, bitches...".

Serena Cruz and Jose Romero (Tigard resident?), you can only hide behind statements like "we're being oppressed by the white man! (sob sob sob)" for so long. Come up with something more original next time.

The "white man" has left the building.

Here is my beef about the RE-NAME - the behviour of the Chávez committee members..

I've attended all of the public meetings - and at one point was open to what they had to say.

The Chávez committee speaks/spoke with such distain and disrespect for the residents of North Portland. They didn't do their home work. They chose not to include the community AND this is what they get. DENIED!

The "white man" does not rule in North Portland (Beaverton perhaps). Take the Max to North Portland at 5:00 pm - it's filled with all the colors of the rainbow. Average, middle class, hard working, reasonable people - that stood up to the rather pushy, arrogant, disrespectful members of the Chávez committee and collectively said: "hey, stop being a jerk to NoPo, bitches...".

Serena Cruz and Jose Romero (Tigard resident?), you can only hide behind statements like "we're being oppressed by the white man! (sob sob sob)" for so long. Come up with something more original next time.

The "white man" has left the building.

Here is my beef about the RE-NAME - the behviour of the Chávez committee members..

I've attended all of the public meetings - and at one point was open to what they had to say.

The Chávez committee speaks/spoke with such distain and disrespect for the residents of North Portland. They didn't do their home work. They chose not to include the community AND this is what they get. DENIED!

The "white man" does not rule in North Portland (Beaverton perhaps). Take the Max to North Portland at 5:00 pm - it's filled with all the colors of the rainbow. Average, middle class, hard working, reasonable people - that stood up to the rather pushy, arrogant, disrespectful members of the Chávez committee and collectively said: "hey, stop being a jerk to NoPo, bitches...".

Serena Cruz and Jose Romero (Tigard resident?), you can only hide behind statements like "we're being oppressed by the white man! (sob sob sob)" for so long. Come up with something more original next time.

The "white man" has left the building.

Here is my beef about the RE-NAME - the behviour of the Chávez committee members..

I've attended all of the public meetings - and at one point was open to what they had to say.

The Chávez committee speaks/spoke with such distain and disrespect for the residents of North Portland. They didn't do their home work. They chose not to include the community AND this is what they get. DENIED!

The "white man" does not rule in North Portland (Beaverton perhaps). Take the Max to North Portland at 5:00 pm - it's filled with all the colors of the rainbow. Average, middle class, hard working, reasonable people - that stood up to the rather pushy, arrogant, disrespectful members of the Chávez committee and collectively said: "hey, stop being a jerk to NoPo, bitches...".

Serena Cruz and Jose Romero (Tigard resident?), you can only hide behind statements like "we're being oppressed by the white man! (sob sob sob)" for so long. Come up with something more original next time.

The "white man" has left the building.

Here is my beef about the RE-NAME - the behviour of the Chávez committee members..

I've attended all of the public meetings - and at one point was open to what they had to say.

The Chávez committee speaks/spoke with such distain and disrespect for the residents of North Portland. They didn't do their home work. They chose not to include the community AND this is what they get. DENIED!

The "white man" does not rule in North Portland (Beaverton perhaps). Take the Max to North Portland at 5:00 pm - it's filled with all the colors of the rainbow. Average, middle class, hard working, reasonable people - that stood up to the rather pushy, arrogant, disrespectful members of the Chávez committee and collectively said: "hey, stop being a jerk to NoPo, bitches...".

Serena Cruz and Jose Romero (Tigard resident?), you can only hide behind statements like "we're being oppressed by the white man! (sob sob sob)" for so long. Come up with something more original next time.

The "white man" has left the building.

Here is my beef about the RE-NAME - the behviour of the Chávez committee members..

I've attended all of the public meetings - and at one point was open to what they had to say.

The Chávez committee speaks/spoke with such distain and disrespect for the residents of North Portland. They didn't do their home work. They chose not to include the community AND this is what they get. DENIED!

The "white man" does not rule in North Portland (Beaverton perhaps). Take the Max to North Portland at 5:00 pm - it's filled with all the colors of the rainbow. Average, middle class, hard working, reasonable people - that stood up to the rather pushy, arrogant, disrespectful members of the Chávez committee and collectively said: "hey, stop being a jerk to NoPo, bitches...".

Serena Cruz and Jose Romero (Tigard resident?), you can only hide behind statements like "we're being oppressed by the white man! (sob sob sob)" for so long. Come up with something more original next time.

I honestly don't understand Ms. Guembes's objection.

The sad thing about these "Latino" supporters of the name change is that they keep trying to hijack Chavez's legacy in the name of race. They seem to think that by also being of Hispanic origin better qualifies them to represent his ideals. Half the bigotry in this issue is stemming from that attitude.

Again, the whole community is ducking the real issue, which is that we don't have a street named after Che Guevara. I think me and ten friends will get together, form the "COMMITTEE TO LIBERATE HAWTHORNE BOULEVARD FROM IMPERIALIST RULE," then throw a fit if we don't get our way.

I also plan to post this comment six times in a row, like the gentleman above.

OMG.
If it were up to me they would get NOTHING.
I have seen preschoolers with more respect and less tantrums.
If they don't want 4th then give them NOTHING.
It was bad enough they cried "racism" at every turn, now they are pissed they did not get EXACTLY what they wanted. Welcome to the real world, welcome to adulthood.

As Mick says, "you can't always get what you want".

Now piss off and find another "just cause", another neighborhood you can attempt to upset with your slanderous terms and anger.

I am surprised the North Portlanders didn't kick your ass for calling them names. You should be ashamed of the way you have been and are acting. Chavez would be.

These whiners from the Latino community crack me up. They don't follow the rules, don't address North Portlanders and then expect a lot of sympathy?

Well you won't get it. Tuff luck. You should have gone for a park, memorial or whatever. Now you have downtown Portland and we will always call 4th avenue.....4TH AVENUE!!

Long live the people.

Can we rename SE 9th avenue to "La Lunavenue"? It's sort of spangish it was such a great venue.

It took me awhile, but I believe I have figured out what the CEC committee is complaining about.

The way they see it, the city sets up committees all the time to reseach and report back to the council. The CEC committee sees themselves in that same light. However, when they report back to the council with the recommendation to re-name Interstate, the city council decides it will not accept that recommendation. They think that would not have happened if they were "white".

I do not agree with their assessment, but I understand their thinking.

Cesar Chavez deserves honoring because of who he was. Nobody (publically at least) has ever disputed that. He deserves something named after him because of what he did. He does NOT deserve it purely because of his skin color. I don't care whether he was white, black, brown or bright green. Anybody who even includes his race in their consideration of the issue is being RACIST. Look the word up in a dictionary.

The actions and words of the rename committee, and of the mayor, have made race an issue where it shouldn't have been one. In doing so, they have put race relations in this city back twenty years.

No, Mayor Potter, you're not irrelevant. But right now I wish you were.

Hey dannyb, learn how to hit the mouse button ONCE, OK?

To the Chávez Committee members: hey, sorry, you're not entitled to pick the one and ONLY street to rename because you've appointed yourselves the spokespeople for the Chicano/Latino/Hispanic community. I'm of bi-cultural Spanish- and Anglo-American heritage, and you certainly don't speak for me. Finally, how is getting 4th Ave. downtown not a GREATER honor for Chávez?

In the end, what the rename committee got was so much more than what they'd asked for, and yet they fucking cry.

I know; everyone else said that too. I just can't believe it...

So, they try to shove the idea of renaming Interstate Ave down the throats of the city by deciding on the street secretly and not involving the community in the discussion. It (obviously) caused a lot on tension and turmoil since they attempted to do it behind everyones back. What does the city council try to do to squash the problem? Shove down the throats of the residents and businesses on another street. Excellent, those poor business owners on 4th have just been shitted on and it's likely they won't have a chance to get a word in edgewise to stop this. They should just toss the new street signs on top of the old ones so that 4th remains.
Q: "How do I get to city hall?"
A: "It's on Cesar Chavez Blvd!"
Q: "Oh, where is that??"
A: "Well, it's right between 3rd and 5th downtown"
Q: "Wouldn't that make it 4th??"
A: "Oh, no... the city decided they should take away the rights of its citizens and just rename a street without checking with anyone... so now we no longer have a 4th St."
Q: "Isn't that kind of opposite of what Cesar Chavez stood for??"
A: "Well, as long as the white man doesn't feel guilty, it's alright"

WHY RENAME A STREET WHEN NEW ONES ARE BUILT ALL OVER THE CITY EACH YEAR??

As someone who IS NOT a racist and for whom racism has been an interest and an issue for much of my life, so much so that I majored in it (in a sorts) in college, I have no problem talking about race, racism or racist behavior. I am appauled at the behavior of the people in the name-change committee who, because they were not getting their way, resorted to the lowest tactic they could by accusing everyone who disagreed with them of being a racist, and now the "three white men" in city hall are getting it too. You knew that was coming. The pro-name change contingent pulled the race card and played it over and over as soon as they encountered any opposition.
As a resident of North Killingsworth St., I attended all of the name-change meetings except the Overlook Neighborhood Association meeting. Not ONCE did anyone at those meetings who was speaking against the name change make any racist remarks while speaking. At the Arbor Lodge meeting, everyone made really good arguements against the name change for a variety of reasons.
Now look, did some people make racist, stupid comments under their breath, or away from the crowds. Yes they did. And there is no excuse for it nor should that behavior be excused. But the thing that has made me so angry is that the Chavez committee has taken the remarks made by a minority -- and if they say otherwise they're full of shit -- labled everyone by those remarks. I was absolutely disgusted at the final Okley-Green meeting where everyone, and I mean almost EVERYONE who spoke in favor of the name change said in one way or other that those of us who opposed the name change were racists. The city councilors heard all this, too. They're not completely stupid. After that meeting, I'll tell ya, I was considering becoming a racist. Let me tell you what I heard first at the Arbor Lodge meeting then at Okley-Green:
After the Arbor Lodge meeting a group of Hispanic women were talking and one of them was almost crying saying "Did you here her? She was calling us "them", etc. Well, I know who she was refering to and it was a woman who was not so articulate or comfortable speaking to groups and she was very sincerely trying to suggest we name the new NoPo library after Ceasar Chavez. She did say "them" meaning the people in the Chavez committee. A case of hearing what one chooses to hear rather than what is actually being said.
After the Okley-Green meeting this Hispanic kid told me that it didn't matter what the Chavez committee wanted to name after Chavez, he said we'd all still be here in this contencious meeting. I asked him if what he was implying was that Portlanders are all racists and are simply opposed to anything being named after Chavez, he said yes, that was true. What bullshit.
So I ask, where do you go with that?
If you support the name change, as Mayor Potter does, your OK. But if you oppose the name change, you're a racist, or "Three White Males" then WHERE DO YOU GO FROM THERE? How do you have a constructive dialogue under these conditions? You can't. The racist comments expressed my the minority of idiots who live in North Portland were not worth anything in this debate. The Chavez committee grasped on to them because they saw their side was loosing, so they resorted to the very thing they accused the other side.
They should be ashamed. And Serena Cruz can kiss my ass.
Thank you for reading this long missive and letting me vent. I have not been so pissed off in a while.

It took me awhile, but I believe I have figured out what the CEC committee is complaining about.

This stopped being about Cesar Chavez long, long ago. This is now about whether or not the established city powers are going to recognize and pay tribute to the CEC Committee. That's why they are crying--because they don't think they're getting honored as they should. This has nothing to do with Chavez anymore, only about the people who presume to speak for him.

When I was in high school in San Diego, my Spanish classes were occasionally taught by a guy named Victor Salandini. He was also known as the "Tortilla Priest," and was Chavez's main spiritual advisor. He often talked to our class about Chavez, and described him as a warm, humble man, who cared little about personal glory or recognition, and who only cared for the people whose rights he was protecting. I don't think *that* Cesar Chavez would care much for these people who, in trying to honor him, have managed to insult much of the city, and who constantly present themselves as unbelievably arrogant and prideful.

I'm still interested in knowing the limits of what laws or law-like things can be suspended by the city council during non-emergencies like this.

the committee members make it sound like this pleases no one. i wonder if this makes anyone at all happy.

i'm cool with honoring cesar chavez, but with so much bad feeling about it, it seems like we're going to pay to change a lot of street signs only to have everyone keep calling it fourth avenue. i hope portland can either embrace this change or take it back.

Thanks for your vent, Jan - I agree 100% with you.

Unfortunately for the average latino in N. Ptld, this whole episode will make it tougher for them. All brought on by a bunch of hispanics wanting to flex their power (I thought it was interesting that at the start of the first general meeting at Ockley Green that the committee started out by talking about how much purchasing power they had and that latinos were driving the population growth - what has that got to do with Chavez?)

Personally, I don't care if they think I'm a racist or not. I don't need to prove anything to them.

"Excuse me, which way to Chinatown?"

"Just follow Cesar E. Chavez Avenue to Burnside and you'll see the Chinatown Gate. There are some great Hong Kong Style Dim Sum places on Cesar E. Chavez Avenue between Couch and Glisan."

On a serious note, I hope this won't expedite the Chinese exodus to 82nd.

Since CECBC doesn't want 4th anyway, perhaps City Council should limit the re-naming to SW 4th.

I'm sure a historian would be happy to point out the historical significance of NW 4th to them if they can't see the obvious in their rush to appease.

Awesome! The 4th Ave Motel will now be the Cesar Chavez Motel! Does that mean it'll now smell like burritos instead of curry?

Just wondering

Can we all just agree that racist shit was said AND that not everyone opposing the name change was a racist? Why, why why do we keep going around on this?

I'm happy it's 4th Avenue, it's bigger and more traveled. It's an amazing feat to have a downtown street considered for renaming. But, I think everyone involved on BOTH sides of this clusterfuck needs to step back for an ego-check. Get over yourselves.

I am wondering what the commissioners are going to do now that they will be playing with the big boys. To amend the city charter is different than blowing off the city code. Any bets that they will chicken out and go back to Interstate. It would not surprise me a bit. They put on a nice show, but did not eliminate Interstate.
I enjoyed that fact that Potter was the one who called the Oregonian after Ronnie blasted Saltzman, Sten and Adams on the hallowed promise of "I will support this". I guess Potter forgot to call his good friends, oops that would have been behind the door dealing... get real.
Honest, when Marta took her pose, with back turned to council, head down and such sincere saddest. I so wanted to stand in front of them and take the same pose.
I also appreciated the quote " we'll keep fighting the war". Hell, of course you will, you started it. You don't care about those you hurt.
Damn, I starting to get all worked up again.

A teachable moment

I am going to try to seize a teachable moment amid this mind-numbing conversation that used to be about Cesar Chavez….

1. The terms "Latino" and "Hispanic" do not necessarily describe the same people.

2. There is no single Latino "community."

3. There is no single Hispanic "community."

4. Cesar Chavez's ethnicity was neither "Hispanic" nor "Latino."

5. His ethnicity was "Mexican American" and "Chicano."

6. "Latinos" and "Hispanics" are not necessarily either "Mexican Americans" or "Chicanos."

7. The Latino "community" involved in the Interstate controversy does not reflect either Mexican American nor Chicano points of view.

8. The self-appointed "Latino leaders" are exactly that.

9. The Portland State Department of Chicano and Latino Studies recognizes the difference between the two cultures. Educate yourselves. Here's the link:

http://www.chla.pdx.edu/program.htm

10. Like Cesar Chavez, I am a Mexican American and a Chicano.

--Sean Cruz

Mexican American, Chicano Sean Cruz

That's it.
They have begun a "war" when the rest of us level headed people in disagreement simply attempted constructive and solution focused dialogue, which would have required cooperation and an open mind, mind you.

Good GOD, Randy even offered up a parade to be held in front of city hall,and did I hear anyone say thank you? He certainly does not "owe" you that?!? (Any more than anyone "owes" you anything more than what all humans owe each other....which I believe I stated previously...open minded, yada yada)

I applaud the commissioners. They gave Chavez, the American hero, to ALL of us, and not just the select few who felt they could both "claim" him as "theirs" and on the same hand stand there and claim to know what he stood for....he stood for ALL OF US.

But I still believe that jumping to naming any street is a bad move. To reiterate others', a statue,park name,school name, etc. would be the best choice.That would be something ALL of us would support. Wow. An actual win-win on this. Imagine.

After reading Sean Cruz blog, I did pay attention to how the words Mexican American were never used in city council testimony. Thank you for sharing and teaching.

Jan asked "WHERE DO YOU GO FROM THERE?"

Well, since there is clearly no pleasing the racist race hustlers who make up the so-called leadership in the "Latino community," no matter how far you bend over backwards, there is only one solution: To ignore them completely. There is NOTHING we can do to please them, so there is no use even trying. My standard operating procedure from now on will be to tell these perpetual victims to go fuck themselves. Preferably somewhere other than in Portland. I hear California is nice this time of year.....

Ok...I still don't get it...Of all the things in the world to put your energy into OPPOSING, renaming a street after an American labor organizer? What is the big freakin' deal.

Hey I live on Rosa Parks! I actually think that is kinda of cool and YES I knew NOTHING about the change until the City was out replacing signs. So I have to change a few address labels over the next couple of years, so freakin' what.

However let me note that I have only lived in this town for SIX years. A lot of folks getting their panties in a knot about street names like to point out that they are a "Portland Native" or they have been here this many years or that many years (but always more than six!)....

Maybe once I have spent a decade or more in Portland the full brain transfer will take effect and I spend my days muttering to myself that "I still call it Portland Boulevard and I always will!"...

Maybe my kids who are Portland Natives and thus fully acclimated will soon rebel against me because their names were imposed on them without their consent...

Or maybe I will always consider the Nite Hawk guy and North Star Coffee ladies a bunch of idiots with too much time on their hands...I don't know if they are racists but they are definitely fools...

To Sean Cruz - who gives a shit???

people who care about the way they speak care, DSS.

people care who don't just use "they" and "them" and assume their listeners will blanket the largest group possible with some bad sentiment.

to add to sean cruz's teachable moment, i'd like to encourage people using the word "they" to think about who they mean and try to be more specific.

statements by two leaders of the name change movement have made a positive name change nearly impossible. i'll also go out of my way to avoid the nite hawk cafe. my disappointment extends to exactly three people, not any "thems" or "theys" who happen to have similar skin tone.

To "Only six years..." I respectfully disagree. The "Interstate" name is historic and contributes to the sense of place of people who live in North Portland. I live within two blocks of Interstate myself, and have for 10 years. I think that the majority of people who live and work in and around Interstate should have the determining say in how this goes. The mayor and a couple of commissioners had no right to promise their votes to anyone in the first place without getting a good idea of how North Portlanders felt about it.

To "Only Six Years..." You are entitled to your opinion; I don't think anyone has said that ALL North Portland residents are opposed to the re-naming.

However, when the overwhelming MAJORITY of residents are against it, does it make sense to go ahead anyway?

Interesting......

Why does the proposed re-name stop at I-405?

Looks like the 4 white guys know better than to upset the power elite.

Hey Only six years... harsh!

I hope you have more compassion when you find out your native Portland children turn out to love this city, flaws and all.

You found out when the street signs were hung and that doesn't bother you but you are not alone in this. Welcome to the real world where many people have many different points of view and the majority still has a say.

To "What's the Point" I'll ask, Why would you assume that I'd care what Sean Cruz wants to be called?" Sean Cruz doesn't ask me if I'd like to be called an Aryan and I don't ask his permission to call him a Mexican (regardless of where he was born).
And for Sean Cruz, "Who cares?" Stop thinking that world will continue to swallow this silly-ass victim pathology that you endlessly peddle. Chicano? Give me a break! What is this Billy Jack? Chicano is the way that Sean (half demon whitey) Cruz continues the slow boil toward race-war in this country. Hey Sean, if you don't like being a victim of racism, change the demographic by becoming the dominant race. Oh, I'm sorry, that's called Mexico, the place Mexicans flee!

kevin, i didn't assume you care. i said intelligent people who care about how they speak care. not idiot racists.

Hey "What's the Point" Do you mean compliant drones like yourself who can't wait to nibble on the next biscuit tossed to them by their new masters?

You'll have to work a little harder to balance the defining criteria between intelligence and idiocy before I'll believe that armchair social scientists like yourself make any valuable contribution to identity politics other than throwing yourselves down in front of the machinery and begging for forgiveness.