This Week in the Mercury
Tuesday, March 10, 2009
News / Politics Saltzman on Soccer: Concerns About "imagery of whole deal" on Urban Renwal
Posted by Matt Davis on Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 11:42 AM
I've been hanging out at city hall this morning, trying to buttonhole the two undecided city commissioners to find out whether they intend to vote "yes" or "no" tomorrow on Major League soccer.
Fortunately they've been sitting in budget hearings for the last two hours and seemed only too glad to stretch their legs and go to the restroom. Aha! I seized my chance!
Does Commissioner Saltzman have any concerns about the MLS deal that would prevent him voting yes tomorrow?
"Yes, I do have some concerns," says Saltzman. "I haven't made my decision yet. But my concern relates to the imagery of the whole deal as it relates to urban renewal areas, and the many moving parts to the deal, almost too many moving parts."
Nick Fish was harder to crack. Initially, he offered no comment, whatsoever. But eventually, after I actually got down on my knees, he gave me 22 enormous words:
"I look forward to the hearing tomorrow which will be my first opportunity to get a complete briefing on the new package," he said.
Is mayor Sam Adams going to bring MLS to Portland?
"We have two votes!" he said, optimistically.
He needs three.
The gambler in me thinks Saltzman would vote "no" if Fish did. But Fish, I think, is a smart politician who knows the risk in going against Leonard and Adams on the deal, even if huge amounts of the urban renewal money used to fund the deal might otherwise go to help poor people. And Fish does have a conscience, it's rumored.
Still: The fate of this vote all depends on how chancey Nick Fish is feeling. Is he ready to make a move against the mayor? Probably not. Especially in the absence of the Attorney General's verdict on the Adams scandal. Is Fish ready to make a stand on the urban renewal issue, for example, even though his bureau is currently embroiled in a legal battle related to debatable urban renewal decisions made by his predecessor? I doubt it. He's still in his first year as a City Commissioner, in which the golden rule is firmly to keep one's head down. Even if your council does start using money supposedly for the uplift of "blighted" areas to help a multi-billionaire spiff up a perfectly good stadium, in the midst of the worst recession you can remember.
The politics of this deal are mesmerizing. It's just sad that it seems totally removed from the welfare and concerns of everyday Portlanders.
3
At least they're having meetings on the budget right before they vote on it. It at least keeps the realities in focus.
4
Daaaaave,
You still haven't responded to the fact that part of this deal does spend real property taxpayer money. $15 million dollars of it through the creation of the URA.
I just want somebody advocating for this deal to stand behind the fact that real property taxpayer money, at least $15 million, will be spent to pay for the deal. And that is $15 million that will not be allowed to be used by the city's general fund, the Portland Public School District or the county general fund. Are you willing to support spending $15 million of taxpayer money on this. This $15 million is not part of the deal using City backed bonds. It is a separate amount that will be taken from taxpayers and spent on this deal.
yes or no.
You still haven't responded to the fact that part of this deal does spend real property taxpayer money. $15 million dollars of it through the creation of the URA.
I just want somebody advocating for this deal to stand behind the fact that real property taxpayer money, at least $15 million, will be spent to pay for the deal. And that is $15 million that will not be allowed to be used by the city's general fund, the Portland Public School District or the county general fund. Are you willing to support spending $15 million of taxpayer money on this. This $15 million is not part of the deal using City backed bonds. It is a separate amount that will be taken from taxpayers and spent on this deal.
yes or no.
5
"Even if your council does start using money supposedly for the uplift of "blighted" areas to help a multi-billionaire spiff up a perfectly good stadium, in the midst of the worst recession you can remember."
You're a writer? Great sentence.
You're a writer? Great sentence.
6
"... even if huge amounts of the urban renewal money used to fund the deal might otherwise go to help poor people."
More chuckles. You're becoming unhinged, mate.
"The politics of this deal are mesmerizing. It's just sad that it seems totally removed from the welfare and concerns of everyday Portlanders."
Because anyone who is in favor isn't an everyday Portlander, right? Matt Davis: hater of Portlanders.
More chuckles. You're becoming unhinged, mate.
"The politics of this deal are mesmerizing. It's just sad that it seems totally removed from the welfare and concerns of everyday Portlanders."
Because anyone who is in favor isn't an everyday Portlander, right? Matt Davis: hater of Portlanders.
7
This $15 million?
Commitment to Neighborhood Involvement in Urban Renewal Areas
6. Financial support for the MLS/AAA Baseball project based on locating it in
established and potential urban renewal areas should take into consideration other
programs and projects that have been identified and prioritized in each of those
areas. Other programs and projects anticipated for a new urban renewal district in
the Central City, including those related to Portland State University, the
downtown retail core and various neighborhoods, merit funding. Dedicating
urban renewal dollars to the project will result in tradeoffs. The Task Force based
its recommendation upon projections that tax increment funding (TIF) will not
exceed $15 million for refurbishing PGE Park. If a new stadium is sited in Lents
Park, funds requested in the form of TIF must not cause exclusion of community
and economic development programs and projects in the Lents Town Center URA
before, during or after the stadium project timeline. Similar consideration should
be made in the Convention Center URA in the context of the Memorial Coliseum
12
site. Requests for TIF should be reviewed and subject to the recommendation of
the urban renewal advisory bodies to the Portland Development Commission for
each URA with representation from public and private property owners,
neighborhood associations, and for the downtown district, Portland State
University.
Commitment to Neighborhood Involvement in Urban Renewal Areas
6. Financial support for the MLS/AAA Baseball project based on locating it in
established and potential urban renewal areas should take into consideration other
programs and projects that have been identified and prioritized in each of those
areas. Other programs and projects anticipated for a new urban renewal district in
the Central City, including those related to Portland State University, the
downtown retail core and various neighborhoods, merit funding. Dedicating
urban renewal dollars to the project will result in tradeoffs. The Task Force based
its recommendation upon projections that tax increment funding (TIF) will not
exceed $15 million for refurbishing PGE Park. If a new stadium is sited in Lents
Park, funds requested in the form of TIF must not cause exclusion of community
and economic development programs and projects in the Lents Town Center URA
before, during or after the stadium project timeline. Similar consideration should
be made in the Convention Center URA in the context of the Memorial Coliseum
12
site. Requests for TIF should be reviewed and subject to the recommendation of
the urban renewal advisory bodies to the Portland Development Commission for
each URA with representation from public and private property owners,
neighborhood associations, and for the downtown district, Portland State
University.
8
Yes. That $15 million. It is still taxpayer money being spent to pay for the project.
Do you support spending at least $15 million of property taxpayer money on this project?
And it is merely projected that "tax increment funding (TIF) will not exceed $15 million for refurbishing PGE Park." So the total may end up being higher. It's real money being spent. Not loans being paid back.
Do you support spending at least $15 million of property taxpayer money on this project?
And it is merely projected that "tax increment funding (TIF) will not exceed $15 million for refurbishing PGE Park." So the total may end up being higher. It's real money being spent. Not loans being paid back.
9
Daaaave, I think he's trying to get you to admit that urban renewal debt is public debt that we will be paying off. Will or will not the public be paying for at least $15 million of this with urban renewal money, which will be paid back with property taxes from teh UR district?
Answer the question yes or no. Don't quote the task force paper. Yes or no?
Answer the question yes or no. Don't quote the task force paper. Yes or no?
10
I love how Blabby picked a Simpson character. Too appropriate given that this deal is a little too similar to the Shelbyville Mono-rail.
Why Sam Adams and Randy Leonard are so hell bent on taking money out of the already-hurting County coffers in order to buy themselves favor with Merritt Paulson is beyond me.
Stars in their eyes for a man whose father was part of the recent financial fiasco our country is dealing with? Bail out the banks, bail out the auto dealers and help fund a soccer stadium in a town that has a smaller population than Miami (a city too smart for this deal).
Nevermind that Fireman Randy and Little Boy Sam have no financial sense between the two of them; I'm shocked that the Oregonian has jumped so heartily onboard this one.
Let's hope Nick has the sense and compassion to "just say no" and do what's right.
Why Sam Adams and Randy Leonard are so hell bent on taking money out of the already-hurting County coffers in order to buy themselves favor with Merritt Paulson is beyond me.
Stars in their eyes for a man whose father was part of the recent financial fiasco our country is dealing with? Bail out the banks, bail out the auto dealers and help fund a soccer stadium in a town that has a smaller population than Miami (a city too smart for this deal).
Nevermind that Fireman Randy and Little Boy Sam have no financial sense between the two of them; I'm shocked that the Oregonian has jumped so heartily onboard this one.
Let's hope Nick has the sense and compassion to "just say no" and do what's right.
11
I reject the question since it begins with the false premise that the money is being pitched into a black hole and upgrading PGE Park will not have a positive, beneficial impact for that neighborhood, resulting in further development and upward trending valuations that would bring property taxes back into the coffers. Which, of course, is the entire point of the URD.
12
Matt, with your financial reporting background you are the perfect journalist to explain the deal in real world terms.
The millions are bond money paid over 15-20-30 years, like a mortgage. The important number is the dollar amount that would otherwise be taxes for general fund operations (household expenses) which will go for paying the soccer bonds in any given year. That is something like 1-2 million per year out of a Portland general fund of $500 million and county $300 million.
Schools are mostly paid for by the state income tax.
Note the council (Sten, Leonard, Adams?) wisely fought hard to put 30% of PDC funds into affordable housing. (Their definition of affordable is a good debate topic though)
The millions are bond money paid over 15-20-30 years, like a mortgage. The important number is the dollar amount that would otherwise be taxes for general fund operations (household expenses) which will go for paying the soccer bonds in any given year. That is something like 1-2 million per year out of a Portland general fund of $500 million and county $300 million.
Schools are mostly paid for by the state income tax.
Note the council (Sten, Leonard, Adams?) wisely fought hard to put 30% of PDC funds into affordable housing. (Their definition of affordable is a good debate topic though)
13
First Sam Adams gives Vancouver its 120-lane Sprawlville Bridge, then he throws my tax dollars into a project we don't need or want. Awesome, Sam, way to go. I supported him during his"crisis" because I wanted him come back and lead effectively, not roll over on every major issue that comes across his desk for the rest of his term.
This thing is a publicly funded money pit, and a total outrage for anyone other than the tiny faction of vocal bullies who support the Timbers. Pushing this through without a public referendum should be a crime. It's become increasingly clear that city council and the mayor's office aren't acting in the interest of the constituents-- even bleeding-heart liberals like myself. Sam and Randy are just out to keep the money flowing into the big-name projects. Developers are getting rich on our handouts all so a bunch of loudmouth jocks can shout a little louder from the stands. Not worth it!
This thing is a publicly funded money pit, and a total outrage for anyone other than the tiny faction of vocal bullies who support the Timbers. Pushing this through without a public referendum should be a crime. It's become increasingly clear that city council and the mayor's office aren't acting in the interest of the constituents-- even bleeding-heart liberals like myself. Sam and Randy are just out to keep the money flowing into the big-name projects. Developers are getting rich on our handouts all so a bunch of loudmouth jocks can shout a little louder from the stands. Not worth it!
14
A CAT/NOT A CAT IS RETIRING FROM BLOGTOWN.
Remember when blogtown was fun? I do. This was a frivolous place where we could have fairly intelligent discussions about the issue of the day while simultaneously celebrating cat friday/caturday and trolling Matt into various nervous breakdowns while he was changing his medications and calling everyone racist. It was fun!
Alas, the whole fucking Sam debacle brought in some sort of ideologue brigade that wanted nothing but SRS BSNS, but unfortunately had the debate skills of lesser apes. Sam-gate sort of wrapped up, but these dipshits just found new things to have completely incompetent show-downs about. It's fucking boring, and I'm fucking bored.
I know that Rom and jake and all the other half-wits will count this as a win, to which I say "good on you". You've made blogtown insufferably stupid, well done. I'm out.
Kiala, graham, Alison, other decent people: It's been fun, and I'll miss you guys.
Mercury arts interns: by and large you all suck. Up your game.
Matt: You're a talentless hack, but you knew that. Good luck with the mental health issues.
KTHXBAI.
Remember when blogtown was fun? I do. This was a frivolous place where we could have fairly intelligent discussions about the issue of the day while simultaneously celebrating cat friday/caturday and trolling Matt into various nervous breakdowns while he was changing his medications and calling everyone racist. It was fun!
Alas, the whole fucking Sam debacle brought in some sort of ideologue brigade that wanted nothing but SRS BSNS, but unfortunately had the debate skills of lesser apes. Sam-gate sort of wrapped up, but these dipshits just found new things to have completely incompetent show-downs about. It's fucking boring, and I'm fucking bored.
I know that Rom and jake and all the other half-wits will count this as a win, to which I say "good on you". You've made blogtown insufferably stupid, well done. I'm out.
Kiala, graham, Alison, other decent people: It's been fun, and I'll miss you guys.
Mercury arts interns: by and large you all suck. Up your game.
Matt: You're a talentless hack, but you knew that. Good luck with the mental health issues.
KTHXBAI.
15
Daaaaave,
So let me see if I understand you're position. You do back spending real property taxpayer money (at least $15 million) on the project, but you posit that the $15 million would not exist but for the projected increase in property tax revenue caused by the projected increase in property values within the new Urban Renewal Area that is in turn projected to be caused by the renovation of PGE Park.
Is that a correct understanding? If so, beyond just saying so, what is the basis upon believing that the property values in the new URA will increase enough to create the $15 million?
So let me see if I understand you're position. You do back spending real property taxpayer money (at least $15 million) on the project, but you posit that the $15 million would not exist but for the projected increase in property tax revenue caused by the projected increase in property values within the new Urban Renewal Area that is in turn projected to be caused by the renovation of PGE Park.
Is that a correct understanding? If so, beyond just saying so, what is the basis upon believing that the property values in the new URA will increase enough to create the $15 million?
17
Re: $15M.
Rarely do you get something for nothing. In this case, the $30M expended from Urban Renewal on both sides of the river buys you ...
-- A renovated, city-owned PGE Park that will bring in income, tourists and increased national and international exposure.
-- A new city-owned riverside baseball stadium valued today at $55M.
-- $30,000 annually in parks maintenance money.
Beat the price on that.
Rarely do you get something for nothing. In this case, the $30M expended from Urban Renewal on both sides of the river buys you ...
-- A renovated, city-owned PGE Park that will bring in income, tourists and increased national and international exposure.
-- A new city-owned riverside baseball stadium valued today at $55M.
-- $30,000 annually in parks maintenance money.
Beat the price on that.
18
For close to $90 million we get $30,000 in parks maintenance money?
Who could pass that up?
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/socc…
Who could pass that up?
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/socc…
19
Politically speaking, if Fish goes for this, isn't he doing a solid to Leonard, who endorsed him (and with whom he rhetoricized somewhat against the mayor post-scandal) as much as Adams?
20
Unsurprised that smiley would be well versed in the types of helmets associated with severe brain trauma.
22
We are back to the old Merritt Paulson game again where he says he is paying the bills, but leaves out the fact that he's using taxpayer's money to do it. Details to follow, after the vote tomorrow morning.
23
More interesting details, Daaaaave.
So, we're actually looking at $33.5 million in Urban Renewal funds I guess. These are not covered by Paulson's guarantee. The contributions into the Spectator Fund are guaranteed, which is supporting roughly $30 million.
Here's the kicker, they're going to start moving forward in April, which will commit the general fund, until the URD kicks in to pay the general fund back.
Therefore, if it does move forward in April, the URD will basically be a fait accompli before one iota of public process has even taken place on whether a new UR district is a good idea or not. But it will be a foregone conclusion because "now we need it to pay back the general fund for the soccer stadium."
Life in the CoP: Just one long experience of being rolled by special interests. Bend over!
So, we're actually looking at $33.5 million in Urban Renewal funds I guess. These are not covered by Paulson's guarantee. The contributions into the Spectator Fund are guaranteed, which is supporting roughly $30 million.
Here's the kicker, they're going to start moving forward in April, which will commit the general fund, until the URD kicks in to pay the general fund back.
Therefore, if it does move forward in April, the URD will basically be a fait accompli before one iota of public process has even taken place on whether a new UR district is a good idea or not. But it will be a foregone conclusion because "now we need it to pay back the general fund for the soccer stadium."
Life in the CoP: Just one long experience of being rolled by special interests. Bend over!
24
"A CAT/NOT A CAT IS RETIRING FROM BLOGTOWN.
I know that Rom and jake and all the other half-wits will count this as a win, to which I say "good on you". You've made blogtown insufferably stupid, well done. I'm out."
Oh, the drama! You really are too much, Cat. Did you just move to Portland last month? Blogtown has always been insufferably stupid (see Slogtown for comparison) as has the Merc for the most part, but that's what's fun and amusing about them both. I mean, seriously, did you ever look to the Merc/Blogtown for any sort of intelligent, reasonable discourse? And you call me a half-wit!
I know that Rom and jake and all the other half-wits will count this as a win, to which I say "good on you". You've made blogtown insufferably stupid, well done. I'm out."
Oh, the drama! You really are too much, Cat. Did you just move to Portland last month? Blogtown has always been insufferably stupid (see Slogtown for comparison) as has the Merc for the most part, but that's what's fun and amusing about them both. I mean, seriously, did you ever look to the Merc/Blogtown for any sort of intelligent, reasonable discourse? And you call me a half-wit!
25
Yeah, jake. Things used to be better, back before people like you started doing shit like stalking posters and harassing them about where they were born. Anyway, I'm out at the end of the day. I'm sure everything will be awesome now that the horrible troll is gone.
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