This Week in the Mercury
Wednesday, March 11, 2009
News / Politics Council Votes Yes To Major League Soccer
Posted by Matt Davis on Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 3:44 PM
City Council has voted 3-2 in favor of major league soccer, with Nick Fish, surprisingly, voting "no," but losing anyway.
FRITZ: BROUGHT HER LEEDS UNITED, LIVERPOOL AND FORFAR ATHLETIC SCARVES TO THE COUNCIL SESSION...
"I think I've probably watched more professional soccer games than anyone on this council, but I'm not making my decision today based on whether soccer is a wonderful game or not," said Fritz. "I'm being asked to vote on the dedication of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money. This increased debt capacity would take money away from those neighborhoods," she said. "We're in really bad shape as a city and we spent yesterday, our whole day in heart-breaking reviews of our city budgets."
Fritz said she "questioned the economics" of the proposal, and voted against it. But she was not alone in her opposition.
"If this succeeds I'll be the first one to buy season tickets," said Nick Fish. "I think this may very well be the best deal we can get for the city." But...
"I've decided that major league soccer is not the right priority for today," said Fish, who said he thought the priorities for Portland were looking after veterans and the homeless. "I believe there is an insufficient connection between these values and betting the farm on major league soccer.
"Before we even cast a vote here this afternoon the Oregonian said a no vote would move the city in the direction of nowheresville," said Fish. "To me the test of whether Portland is a major league city or not, is..." nothing to do with Major League Soccer.
"Respectfully, I vote no."
City Commissioner Dan Saltzman voted yes, however, conditional on no urban renewal money being used from a yet-to-be created district around PGE park, without including the county and the school board in the decision. Saltzman proposed an amendment to pull the $15m of urban renewal money off the table, which was seconded by Amanda Fritz. Commissioner Leonard agreed to vote for the amendment because he wants to have a "broader discussion about urban renewal," in the future, he said, adding, "but I'm a political realist."
Saltzman got a huge cheer in council chambers when he voted yes.
"It means that we need to come up with the $15m, one way or another, in the timeline stated," said Adams, who voted yes along with Randy Leonard.
Nick Fish's "no" vote is completely surprising to this reporter. Politically, he had little to gain from breaking with Leonard and Mayor Sam Adams over the proposal, and ending up on the losing side of a 3-2 vote. When he voted "no," he says he didn't know which way Saltzman was going to vote—"Dan keeps his cards pretty close to his chest," he said.
"I cast a tough vote on a tough issue," said Fish. "I'm an independent person. I made up my mind, and voted the way I did because I thought it was the right thing to do."
But breaking with Adams and Leonard like that?
"To me it's not so much about breaking," said Fish. "I think we get too hung up on these things. I called it the way I see it."
"I'm positive about the outcome of everything, but yes, I was surprised by Nick's vote," said Merritt Paulson, when I caught him on the stairs, afterwards. He also said, "are you going to write something else overwhelmingly positive about me on your blog?" but I think he was kidding.
"These are five very independent people and their support will be different depending on the issue," said Adams, when I asked him about Fish's vote. "I'm pleased that this is the end of the beginning and we can get on with the difficult work that lies ahead. This is a challenging deal, but I think it's achievable."
1
Yay, Portland! We can't pay our teachers, or fund roads, or bridges, or jails, or, um, much of anything else, but we can pay the son of a corrupt billionaire a shit ton of money to bring a sports team here that nobody will watch.
2
The fact that there will be no new urban renewal district and there is now a 15 million dollar funding gap should be displayed more prominently in this article.
3
Congratulations morons! The Portland retard train rolls on.
Go fuck yourselves. And please do it with YOUR OWN GODDAMNED MONEY!!!
Go fuck yourselves. And please do it with YOUR OWN GODDAMNED MONEY!!!
4
"It means that we need to come up with the $15m, one way or another, in the timeline stated," said Adams
Great, so now we have to spend MORE time on this? When are they thinking about focusing on issues that actually matter?
Great, so now we have to spend MORE time on this? When are they thinking about focusing on issues that actually matter?
5
GLV, I wish it were true that there would be no Urban Renewal money, but all the amendment says is that the source is now unspecified, and that the County and schools need to be more involved in creating a new Urban Renewal district.
There will be a district around PGE park, and it will spend more than $15 million on this project once the actual cost estimates are in.
There will be a district around PGE park, and it will spend more than $15 million on this project once the actual cost estimates are in.
6
This is really one of the most depressing votes in recent memory. The schools my kids attend are about to get the living hell cut out of their budgets, but we can find the money, "somehow" (Sam Adams, 2009) to build a fancy new stadium, which of course will be waaaaaay over budget by the time construction is finalized. Fucking A.
9
I wouldn't be so sure about that Blabby...there are fundamental changes to urban renewal brewing in Salem, and I think something is going to pass the leg. Fish even alluded to that in his remarks.
In any case my objection to this proposal hinged almost entirely on the creation of a new URA, so I consider myself pretty satisfied with the result.
In any case my objection to this proposal hinged almost entirely on the creation of a new URA, so I consider myself pretty satisfied with the result.
10
Plus Dave J., don't forget that MLS will be out of business 10 years from now. But we'll still have a nice new "soccer only" stadium downtown with about $50 million to pay off on it.
But at least the County won't be getting their money! Stupid greedy county! How dare they seek to function without the largesse of the City of Portland?
But at least the County won't be getting their money! Stupid greedy county! How dare they seek to function without the largesse of the City of Portland?
11
Again GLV, I hope you're right, but alternative sources for $15 million may not be much more palatable anyway.
Do I hear... General Fund?
Do I hear... General Fund?
12
Did the council seem receptive to your concerns when you testified against the deal today?
I'm just assuming you all were there and voiced them.
I'm just assuming you all were there and voiced them.
15
I love the whole "ok, gee, now we have to find that $15 million somewhere" line. Funny how they can move heaven and earth to find the money when it suits them, but when they need to fund a jail? Or fix a bridge? Or do something needed but un-sexy? No money! Shock!
17
At least Saltzman will be up for reelection next year, right around the time the MLS shutters its doors.
22
Blabby, that isn't a reason. I'm actually curious as to what facts and logic lead you to such a conclusion. I don't know shit about the business of MLS. Enlighten me, please.
23
I'm all about this. I will buy a set of season tickets, I will watch and cheer, I will take public transit to the games, I will drink more beer, I will smile at the people employed by the construction and the stadium as this progresses. Also, I'm so happy that I can share a post on this wall that is so full of negativity. You are all sweet sweet people.
24
That's great, Great Wall O Rubish. You're aware that the soccer proponents are projecting an average ticket price of $33, right? (And that's before the inevitable cost overruns push the construction budget 33% higher.)
25
Does anybody actually doubt that the season tickets will sell out as fast or faster than Shittle's?
26
"I'm all about this. I will buy a set of season tickets, I will watch and cheer, I will take public transit to the games, I will drink more beer, I will smile at the people employed by the construction and the stadium as this progresses."
You can buy them right now. They're playing right up until they go MLS.
Yay for Portland. Yay for Blabby. Viva la Saltzman!
You can buy them right now. They're playing right up until they go MLS.
Yay for Portland. Yay for Blabby. Viva la Saltzman!
27
Graham, I would point you to Matt's post of earlier this week that shows 10 of 13 MLS teams operating at a loss.
"Forbes also estimates that the league's 14 franchises generate a combined $20 million operating loss on $165 million in total revenue." (I think Seattle is the 14th, not included in the first tally.)
How do businesses stay afloat when they lose money year after year? The answer is in the mirror, Portland.
"Forbes also estimates that the league's 14 franchises generate a combined $20 million operating loss on $165 million in total revenue." (I think Seattle is the 14th, not included in the first tally.)
How do businesses stay afloat when they lose money year after year? The answer is in the mirror, Portland.
28
"Does anybody actually doubt that the season tickets will sell out as fast or faster than Shittle's?"
Take the current ticket price, add huge construction costs (that will go over budget, as they ALWAYS do), add a lack of corporate sponsors, lack of luxury box purchases, and watch what happens to those ticket prices. (Hint: they will go UP.)
So, yeah, I doubt they will sell out.
Take the current ticket price, add huge construction costs (that will go over budget, as they ALWAYS do), add a lack of corporate sponsors, lack of luxury box purchases, and watch what happens to those ticket prices. (Hint: they will go UP.)
So, yeah, I doubt they will sell out.
29
It almost makes you wonder why we don't have any money when we're throwing our funds to something that has failed about 100% of the time in this country.
30
Dave J, I'm headed to a Blazer game tonight with a ticket that faces at $120. $33 is a steal. Once again, yes I'm all for it. Hard working and hard spending.
31
Hey, good for you, Great Wall. Thank you for supporting our economy and whatnot. I'm simply saying there are not that many people like you in this city, who would pay a lot of money to watch a sport whose leagues always fail.
32
That's a lot of assuming you're doing there, Dave. Isn't that what you have accused the proponents of doing?
33
"Take the current ticket price, add huge construction costs (that will go over budget, as they ALWAYS do), add a lack of corporate sponsors, lack of luxury box purchases, and watch what happens to those ticket prices. (Hint: they will go UP.)"
They're adding luxury boxes, there are enough corporate sponsors in this town for a MLS team trust me, Paulson is covering the cost overruns with his own money.
Blabby, the funniest thing with those numbers you use is the Forbes article they were in was talking about the strength of the league.
They're adding luxury boxes, there are enough corporate sponsors in this town for a MLS team trust me, Paulson is covering the cost overruns with his own money.
Blabby, the funniest thing with those numbers you use is the Forbes article they were in was talking about the strength of the league.
34
Good for you Great Wall! Are you taking your solid gold rocket car?
You're so positive! See you at Promise Keepers!
You're so positive! See you at Promise Keepers!
35
Dave J, I see where you're coming from. But I've heard the same argument regarding the Amercian soccer program as a whole since I was a little dude in knee socks. It's still around and kicking (no pun intended. no, it kinda was). I think my support comes from the possibility of positive creation. That, and I'll enjoy it. You never get something without putting something else in. I guess it just boils down to the question, do you want to make that trade?
37
"They're adding luxury boxes, there are enough corporate sponsors in this town for a MLS team trust me,"
Oh, ok, I trust you. Not my own lying eyes, which keep seeing people laid off and businesses close. I guess those big corporate sponsors will magically rise from the dead and pay money to sponsor a soccer team! Right! And tomorrow Salma Hayek will appear at my house and cook me breakfast.
Oh, ok, I trust you. Not my own lying eyes, which keep seeing people laid off and businesses close. I guess those big corporate sponsors will magically rise from the dead and pay money to sponsor a soccer team! Right! And tomorrow Salma Hayek will appear at my house and cook me breakfast.
38
"Blabby, the funniest thing with those numbers you use is the Forbes article they were in was talking about the strength of the league."
By what metric exactly? The league is losing money after being around how long now?
Listen, I'm getting sidetracked because I'm pissed. The fact is, I don't have anything against soccer. If there are tickets for less than $20, I'm sure I'll see a game every once in awhile.
The point is using public money to do it. All the analysis that talks about jobs created and economic development and whatnot for these projects is ALWAYS bullshit. I know from professional experience how these studies are generated, and the "results" are known before the first bit of analysis is done. This deal is exactly as solid as the Convention Center Hotel or the Tram (i.e. not solid).
By what metric exactly? The league is losing money after being around how long now?
Listen, I'm getting sidetracked because I'm pissed. The fact is, I don't have anything against soccer. If there are tickets for less than $20, I'm sure I'll see a game every once in awhile.
The point is using public money to do it. All the analysis that talks about jobs created and economic development and whatnot for these projects is ALWAYS bullshit. I know from professional experience how these studies are generated, and the "results" are known before the first bit of analysis is done. This deal is exactly as solid as the Convention Center Hotel or the Tram (i.e. not solid).
39
I should also acknowledge that Paulson is getting screwed too, being asked to pay $40 million for a franchise that cost $20 million a couple of years ago.
40
The depth of ignorance about the terms of the deal is unsurprising, but for starters, moaning about construction overruns is 100% irrelevant, given that the liability for that potentiality is almost entirely with Paulson. And a little more facility with what URAs can and can't pay for would really help out the discourse as well.
This just about the cheapest stimulus program imaginable--and private industry is paying some of the cost! Don't remember seeing that in the federal stimulus.
This just about the cheapest stimulus program imaginable--and private industry is paying some of the cost! Don't remember seeing that in the federal stimulus.
41
Ya know, if the players had to run from bloodthirsty lions while trying to score a goal, I might actually attend a game or two.
43
For the first time in my life, I can say that I'm glad that Fritz was elected with VOE funds.
Saltzman is a douche royale: third vote on the Aerial Tram and third vote on the Stadium Scam. Maybe he'll let us crash on his couch after the city goes banko.
Saltzman is a douche royale: third vote on the Aerial Tram and third vote on the Stadium Scam. Maybe he'll let us crash on his couch after the city goes banko.
45
"For the first time in my life, I can say that I'm glad that Fritz was elected with VOE funds."
Yeah, she's for publically subsidizing her campaigns for close to $600K but isn't for publically subsizizing a stadium that has ZERO risk to the public.
Yeah, she's for publically subsidizing her campaigns for close to $600K but isn't for publically subsizizing a stadium that has ZERO risk to the public.
46
"ZERO risk to the public"
Oh come on Garrett, you can not possibly believe that to be true, can you? Zero risk?
Oh come on Garrett, you can not possibly believe that to be true, can you? Zero risk?
47
The absolute worst part about this that hasn't been talked about nearly as much? A couple teams in Major League Baseball (aka a professional sports league that actually MAKES money here in the States) are considering moving within the next couple years. Wouldn't it be nice if they could have an incredible, beautiful new baseball stadium in the heart of the city like a slightly remodeled for larger capacity PGE Park? Bring the Oakland A's or Florida Marlins or whatever to town, and have both the Trailblazers and whatever MLB team we get on the MAX line?
Instead we're spending all this money to kick the Beavers out, put in a really dumb spending venture in the Timbers, and begin ruining our chances for an MLB team bid for a league that might go belly up in the next few years. And yet the Beavs are the ones getting kicked out to the burbs? Why not build the damn Timbers stadium in Leeds or whatever and keep baseball in the heart of the city? I don't get that part.
Instead we're spending all this money to kick the Beavers out, put in a really dumb spending venture in the Timbers, and begin ruining our chances for an MLB team bid for a league that might go belly up in the next few years. And yet the Beavs are the ones getting kicked out to the burbs? Why not build the damn Timbers stadium in Leeds or whatever and keep baseball in the heart of the city? I don't get that part.
48
"Congratulations morons! The Portland retard train rolls on. Go fuck yourselves. And please do it with YOUR OWN GODDAMNED MONEY!!!"
"Hey DemonJuice, I was at work. Go fuck yourself."
"Hey Daaaaaaaave, go fuck yourself."
"I have eyeballs in my face and grey shit between my ears."
-- the words of Chairman Blabby, consensus-builder
"Hey DemonJuice, I was at work. Go fuck yourself."
"Hey Daaaaaaaave, go fuck yourself."
"I have eyeballs in my face and grey shit between my ears."
-- the words of Chairman Blabby, consensus-builder
49
So I guess I get to be the first one to point out to 'el cubano' that baseball is moving to the Rose Quarter, which last time I checked wasn't exactly in the burbs... Hell, unless Trimet get their way, it's in Fareless Square and PGE Park isn't...
Timbers in MLS has a far better chance of making money than an MLB team in this city. Costs are massively lower, and the reduced frequency of games means you might actually sell a decent proportion of the tickets. Plus, since one of the city council's stated aims for this (realistic or otherwise) is to increase Portland's global visibility, it's a no-brainer; MLS has a far bigger global visibility than baseball.
Timbers in MLS has a far better chance of making money than an MLB team in this city. Costs are massively lower, and the reduced frequency of games means you might actually sell a decent proportion of the tickets. Plus, since one of the city council's stated aims for this (realistic or otherwise) is to increase Portland's global visibility, it's a no-brainer; MLS has a far bigger global visibility than baseball.
50
I'm sorry, I haven't seen anything about baseball being moved to the Rose Quarter.. Where exactly do they plan on doing this? Source? Tearing down Memorial Coliseum and putting in a new stadium? All I've seen mentioned here is that they've wanted to move the Beavers away from the urban core out to SE. I haven't seen anything about plans for the Rose Quarter.
Also Stu, the numbers are far against you in terms of asking how a Timbers team might make substantially more than a professional baseball team. Globally speaking it may make it more visible, but this is still the U.S. and we should probably focus on getting national visibility before global visibility. The fact that we as a top 25 city only have one professional sports team in the big four is a travesty. And no, the MLS is not in that big four.
Also Stu, the numbers are far against you in terms of asking how a Timbers team might make substantially more than a professional baseball team. Globally speaking it may make it more visible, but this is still the U.S. and we should probably focus on getting national visibility before global visibility. The fact that we as a top 25 city only have one professional sports team in the big four is a travesty. And no, the MLS is not in that big four.
51
The plan is for the baseball stadium to replace Memorial Coliseum.
Yes, a baseball team would bring more attention nationally than an MLS team, but that's not what the council have stated they're aiming to do. Quite rightly too as far as I'm concerned - the US isn't the world, and we're in a global economy, where the most powerful country is China not America. Why spend a couple of hundred million to increase visibility within the US, when the city can spend a fraction of that and increase visibility worldwide?
Of course, there are plenty of people that would argue with those priorities, which is fair enough. Personally I don't see what sports teams have to do with a city's profile in the eyes of anyone except sports fans (remember, LA has no NFL team either). But MLS certainly fits into the overall strategy better than MLB.
Yes, a baseball team would bring more attention nationally than an MLS team, but that's not what the council have stated they're aiming to do. Quite rightly too as far as I'm concerned - the US isn't the world, and we're in a global economy, where the most powerful country is China not America. Why spend a couple of hundred million to increase visibility within the US, when the city can spend a fraction of that and increase visibility worldwide?
Of course, there are plenty of people that would argue with those priorities, which is fair enough. Personally I don't see what sports teams have to do with a city's profile in the eyes of anyone except sports fans (remember, LA has no NFL team either). But MLS certainly fits into the overall strategy better than MLB.
52
For all the MLB folks. Great! Let's bring a team here! Now go away until you come back with.a prospective owner.
I want pony's and rainbows every day also. Not going to happen.
I want pony's and rainbows every day also. Not going to happen.
53
Baseball fans:
Yesterday your hero Amanda Fritz posed the question to the president of the Oregon Sports Authority: Does moving the Beavers make it harder for Portland to get an MLB team in the future?
His answer: No. In face, turning down an offer like this from a private investor to bring MLS to this town would send the message that Portland is not interested in sports, and that would harm our chances more than anything.
So there ya go. Next time MLB expands/relocates, and finds an owner to bring $60M of his own money to the table, you're in!
Just don't let me hear you asking for a dime in public financing.
Yesterday your hero Amanda Fritz posed the question to the president of the Oregon Sports Authority: Does moving the Beavers make it harder for Portland to get an MLB team in the future?
His answer: No. In face, turning down an offer like this from a private investor to bring MLS to this town would send the message that Portland is not interested in sports, and that would harm our chances more than anything.
So there ya go. Next time MLB expands/relocates, and finds an owner to bring $60M of his own money to the table, you're in!
Just don't let me hear you asking for a dime in public financing.
54
Major League Soccer will never really take off here, and that's fine by me. We've been having this discussion for nearly thirty years. Unlike our big four, we do not have the world's best talent. David Beckham won't and hasn't changed that, which is why he's going to be playing for AC Milan for part of the season next year- and mind you that's MLS's biggest draw as well as the most successful team in the league. The sport is not part of our country's cultural fiber. Being a Cubs fan means something, in a broader sense. This is not the case with the Columbus Crew.
The one thing I will applaud MLS for is getting soccer-specific stadia built, which is a huge step, because they were just playing in empty NFL venues, or in our case, PGE Park, which looks low-rent. Now that they have their own place, they can appear to be a stable and upwardly mobile organization, and they can rent them out for other non-sporting events or youth soccer tournaments, which can give them some revenue. However, the truth of the matter remains: Nobody Gives A Fuck About Soccer.
None of this matters as to why it's a hard sell, though, because the bottom line is that we're not watching the world's best players on our beloved teams. They're meaningless teams of meaningless players. Major League Soccer would be lucky to compete with minor league baseball, and unfortunately this is what's happening here.
And if MLS can take $15mil of public money and have much less of a likelihood of succeeding than MLB, I'm sure a team like the A's or Marlins would more than pay that back more willingly than the fucking Timbers.
The one thing I will applaud MLS for is getting soccer-specific stadia built, which is a huge step, because they were just playing in empty NFL venues, or in our case, PGE Park, which looks low-rent. Now that they have their own place, they can appear to be a stable and upwardly mobile organization, and they can rent them out for other non-sporting events or youth soccer tournaments, which can give them some revenue. However, the truth of the matter remains: Nobody Gives A Fuck About Soccer.
None of this matters as to why it's a hard sell, though, because the bottom line is that we're not watching the world's best players on our beloved teams. They're meaningless teams of meaningless players. Major League Soccer would be lucky to compete with minor league baseball, and unfortunately this is what's happening here.
And if MLS can take $15mil of public money and have much less of a likelihood of succeeding than MLB, I'm sure a team like the A's or Marlins would more than pay that back more willingly than the fucking Timbers.
55
what a total joke. nice going idiot council members. oh well, maybe I'll have more time to watch soccer once I get laid off from my job because we don't have $ to fund mental health or alcohol and drug treatment services any longer because we opted for sports. Oh wait...I can round up all of the addicts and take 'em to a rousing game of soccer! YES! That's the answer. whew. And I thought this whole thing was a giant debacle.
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