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Wednesday, April 15, 2009

News / Politics Memorial Coliseum Demolition Opposition

Posted by Matt Davis on Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:50 PM

27 people signed up to talk about the plan to demolish Memorial Coliseum this morning. Not a single one of them has spoken in support of the idea so far...

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OPPOSITION: FORMER OREGON GOVERNOR (1979-1987) VICTOR ATIYEH [CENTER] AND ARCHITECTURE JOURNALIST/BLOGGER BRIAN LIBBY...

Former Oregon Governor Victor Atiyeh said the discussion about knocking down Memorial Coliseum has been "very cavalier." He urged council to be more specific about how much the Rose Quarter redevelopment might cost, and to nail down an alternative proposal for memorializing veterans, before proceeding.

Portland Architecture blogger Brian Libby urged council to preserve the Coliseum as a "jewel" of modern architecture. And he said he was "troubled" by calling any new development "sustainable." "Demolishing a building is contrary to the very spirit of sustainability," he said.

"How can the city decide in a period of weeks after private discussions with only two companies owned by wealthy families who each advance their own interests to demolish a public monument of more than 50 years?" asked Will Macht, a PSU urban planning professor. "What sense of public priorities and public interest does this action reveal, and how can any member of the public support any commissioner who votes for it?"

Kristen Minor from Peter Meijer Architects referred to Merritt Paulson's "stunning admission" in this morning's Oregonian that demolishing the Coliseum would allow the city to take advantage of existing parking in the Rose Quarter. She asked: "Our leadership values parking garages more than our glass palace?"

"I did not get a feeling of acknowledgment in yesterday evening's meeting that it is a significant building," said Thomas Phillipson, a PR and marketing manager from the Portland Art Museum, who encouraged council to take preservationists' concerns seriously. "It feels now that demolishing the Memorial Coliseum is a fait accompli, but I think there are other options."

"Is Portland a city that's destroying itself?" asked PCC student and former track athlete Samuel Lumsey. "I don't like to talk about greed, but who is this stadium for? Is this something that the public wants, or that Merritt Paulson wants? Is this something that we're doing for our society, for our community, or for the business interests?"

"I don't care whether it's a soccer stadium or not," said Henry Kane, a world war two veteran. "I care about keeping the faith, because some of those people listed on the memorial are some of my buddies. A corporation, particularly from Delaware, is not a reliable entity to build this project."

"Portland is a city that prides itself on excellent planning, public process and sustainability, " said developer Douglas Obletz. "This plan is not a Portland plan. The drawings I saw last night are not ready for prime time, and they're not ready for a $50million to $200million investment. Rome wasn't built in a day, and Portland wasn't planned in a week. I don't believe it's possible to make a 50-year decision on the future of the city based on two days of design charettes and one night of meaningful public input."

"Given what I heard last night and how the blogosphere lit up afterwards, I think the council may be surprised at how the public might wish to be involved in shaping the future of the Rose Quarter," Obletz said.

"We are asking that you slow down and in fact craft a process," said Angela Kremer from the Eliot neighborhood association. "This idea has had no neighborhood involvement in any way."

Update, 1:44pm

Adams' resolutions will move to next week's agenda for a second reading. In the meantime, council discussion was limited following the public testimony. Adams said "I really appreciate the testimony."

Then Nick Fish made a "joke."

"I agree that this is a difficult issue," he said. But he took Commissioner Randy Leonard to task for attacking the Memorial Coliseum as being a "50 year old building" in the Oregonian.

"I happen to be 50 years old. My plumbing does not work. My heating and ventilating system needs to be replaced. And anybody who sees me bend over knows that my roof needs a little work," said Fish. "There are people in my life who have told me that I am in a sad state of disrepair, but I think we can debate this at a higher plane, and I actually think I'm in the prime of my life."

 

Comments (41) RSS

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1
Where were all of these people for the past 15 years arguing in front of city council for them to do upkeep on the MC so it doesn't fall into the shamble that it is now?
Posted by BlackedOut on April 15, 2009 at 12:56 PM · Report
2
Show trials. The city can say 'we listened' before Sam does whatever he wants contrary to the people of the city.
Knock it down and build a memorial to Cesar Chavez.
Posted by D on April 15, 2009 at 1:00 PM · Report
3
Are you sure it's a shamble Garrett? It's old, and poorly programmed (i.e. vacant a lot, kind of like a baseball field) but I haven't heard that it's falling down around our ears.
Posted by Blabby on April 15, 2009 at 1:02 PM · Report
4
Sarcasm inspired by previous thread:

Someone please explain to me why Vic Atiyeh is an authority on civic matters.
Posted by Bob R. on April 15, 2009 at 1:18 PM · Report
5
The roof has been leaking and roofing tiles have fallen off the ceiling...not sure how much closer you can get to falling down without the piers settling or something...
Posted by Zaggy on April 15, 2009 at 1:20 PM · Report
6
Blabby,

When is the last time you've been in there? I assure you it is a DUMP. The Winterhawks were even remprimanded by the WHL for it's condition I believe. It is an embarrassment, yet myopic sentamentalists who probably haven't been in the building for years are suddenly swooning over the place without one solitary idea of how to pay for even making it safe. It has always been a terrible memorial and now the city has a real opportunity to put something better in it's place.
Posted by bradley on April 15, 2009 at 1:23 PM · Report
7
Let me get this straight - the republican ex-governor has to remind the liberal democrat mayor about proper citizen involvement? Sam, whose team are you on?
Posted by tango1 on April 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM · Report
8
Words like "jewel" and Lauderdale's defense of its beauty make me question if I don't actually know what Memorial Coliseum is. It's this box, right? basketball.ballparks.com/NBA/PortlandTrail… Can someone explain how they get enchanted by that?
Posted by pdxuser on April 15, 2009 at 1:26 PM · Report
9
Capital upgrades to keep the Coliseum operating in its current form are estimated at $10 million for repairs to the roof, lighting, plumbing, etc.
Posted by Sam I Am on April 15, 2009 at 1:27 PM · Report
10
@bradley -

so, I shouldn't replace my roof in a few years and instead contact a demolition contractor?
Posted by pdxMB on April 15, 2009 at 1:27 PM · Report
11
The exterior looks great, but the inside is showing its age, with the roof showing water stains, the concourses are small, and some of the ammenities are outdated (small bathrooms, plumbing needs replaced). I wish the city would have invested more in the facility, but instead, it's starting to show its age inside, and deserves to either be refurbished for use by baseball, or raised for a baseball stadium. I've heard of all sorts of ideas about the MC, but the problem is that nothing has been done to the MC since the RG was built in 1995, almost 14 years ago.
Posted by GK107 on April 15, 2009 at 1:30 PM · Report
12
For clarification: The estimated cost of the replacement development is between $50m and $200m, although nobody has actually fixed the amount yet, as Governor Atiyeh mentioned.
Posted by Matt Davis on April 15, 2009 at 1:30 PM · Report
13
If only they'd demolish it to build an arena four times as expensive as current projected costs and use it to house a college basketball team, maybe more people would support the plan. Just like Matt supports that plan.
Posted by Jack Acid on April 15, 2009 at 1:34 PM · Report
14
What if they were to put a giant neon rose on top of it? Would that make it more beautiful?
Posted by Demondog on April 15, 2009 at 1:34 PM · Report
15
That's a good looking building. A lot of people don't like mid-century architecture, but a lot of people do. Tearing down 20th century architecture because the supposed masses don't get it is like tearing out the 20th century wings of art museums because it make people feel funny, it would leave a glaring gap in the continuity.
Posted by A CAT, probably on April 15, 2009 at 1:34 PM · Report
16
There was testimony today that detailed how Paul Allen's group, that runs both the Memorial Coliseum and the Rose Garden, splits the proceeds from MC events about even (60/40 but I can't recall which way) with the City, but they get 100% from the Rose Garden, so they push events to the Rose Garden. It sounds to me like it's neglected because the Paul Allen and his friends are greedy.
Posted by Paul Cone on April 15, 2009 at 1:35 PM · Report
17
This has nothing to do with a building. This is about Sam Adams putting yet another project on the table in an attempt to keep from being recalled. This guy will do anything to save his own ass.

Click my name to see my other posts.
Posted by Vert on April 15, 2009 at 1:37 PM · Report
18
Boxxy - the MC is a fabulous building from the outside, but the inside needs a lot of help. And it sounds like there is some back manuevering to keep the RG full, and ignore the MC. Looks like Paul Allen strikes again...
Posted by GK107 on April 15, 2009 at 1:47 PM · Report
19
Admittedly, I've never been inside the coliseum. I have an other-coast tendency towards thinking that a cities architectural heritage is rather important. Portland is a lovely town, but our tendency to build this asynchronous wonderland of craftsman bungalows and blandly contemporary green condos just strike me as kind of juvenile.
Posted by A CAT, probably on April 15, 2009 at 1:57 PM · Report
20
Will the new Ducks arena be able to accommodate hockey? Maybe the Winter Hawks can play there?
Posted by Totalnerd on April 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM · Report
21
Boxxy...no offense, but if you never used it, how can you want to keep it based solely on architecture? It costs the city almost 500k a year every year, JUST to keep it open. How does it make any sense to keep something that costs that much just because you like the way it looks? Do you realize what else could be done with that money?
Posted by zaggy on April 15, 2009 at 2:03 PM · Report
22
$10 million to fix the thing up at least? I'd say more like $20-$30 million judging by other remodels in similar venues. Plus the city would be on the hook for the whole deal.

or you could take out a loan, build a new baseball park and have a millionaire legally promise to lease the thing and pay the loans off. Hmmm
Posted by BlackedOut on April 15, 2009 at 2:03 PM · Report
23
I don't get it zaggy, only "users" of a piece of architecture can have an opinion about it? There are dozens of buildings I've never set foot in that I would prefer restored over razed because of their architectural value.

The argument of operating costs is a joke, like it was with the columbia crossing and pge and some much other spurious crap as of late. When the city isn't willing to actually explore options (plural), throwing out a big scary number is meaningless.
Posted by A CAT, probably on April 15, 2009 at 2:12 PM · Report
24
Wait, what about this? TMI Mr. Fish!!

"I happen to be 50 years old. My plumbing does not work. My heating and ventilating system needs to be replaced. And anybody who sees me bend over knows that my roof needs a little work," said Fish. "There are people in my life who have told me that I am in a sad state of disrepair, but I think we can debate this at a higher plane, and I actually think I'm in the prime of my life."

Nobody wants to hear about your plumbing!

Posted by Demondog on April 15, 2009 at 2:34 PM · Report
25
Thanks to Matt Davis, Sarah Mirk and the Portland Mercury for covering this. And great job on the Little Dubai story as well. Save Memorial Coliseum!!!!!
Posted by Brian Libby on April 15, 2009 at 2:35 PM · Report
26
Bradley: "myopic sentamentalists who probably haven't been in the building for years are suddenly swooning over the place"

No member of the Timbers Army should be throwing the word "myopic" at others right now.


Garrett: "have a millionaire legally promise to lease the thing and pay the loans off."

Could you guys please stop spreading this fiction? What he is promising won't come close to paying off the public debt on this thing. Not close.
Posted by Blabby on April 15, 2009 at 3:01 PM · Report
27
I find the history of the city important as well, and I've been in the MC, and I'm not happy the site has been ignored for years while the RG fills up dates. The choice here is to either refurbish the inside to give it more life and use, or renovate the area to bring something in with purpose. The fate of this building has been talked about since 1994, and we're still talking about it all these years later. So suddenly when an idea gets thrown out to do something, the cries to slow down come. I'd love to see the MC get a facelift and be here for years to come, but the alternative of having baseball there and renovating the entire area is a choice I like better at this point.
Posted by GK107 on April 15, 2009 at 3:08 PM · Report
28
@Blabby
I realize you didn't give a shit enough to show up at the task force hearings or the city council session and testify and all. Anyway, I'll remind you that the city's lawyer said in the council meeting the Paulson group would be signing a legally binding agreement that in the event of the teams failure the family would pay off all of the bonds. He will pay off all the bonds for this...it will be in writing. The task force said this, the council said this, Merritt Paulson said this, independent evaluators for the city said this.

The only people who are saying MP won't pay off anything are the detractors like you.

Besides you still don't even begin to address a major issue. Fixing up Memorial Coliseum will cost tens of millions of dollars. I imagine over the next 10 years it will cost easily $40 million or so...either that or the city lets it fall into an even worse state of repair.

So you would rather spend $40 millionish on an old stadium rented out by a hockey team made up of 16 year olds who average 3,000 fans a game and can barely make rent on a stadium with a leaky roof and an ice rink held together (literally) by duct tape. You would rather do that then knock the damned thing down build a nice AAA baseball park with a team full of legitimate MLB players who regularly are called up to the MLB for LESS MONEY.

My mind, it is the boggled.
Posted by BlackedOut on April 15, 2009 at 3:52 PM · Report
29
Let's have a look at this contract Merritt Paulson has signed Garrett. Where is it. Where is the escrow account that Merritt Paulson has put the funds that he would pay the bonds with, as that is the only way there would be any hope of payment in the event the penalty is triggered?

Right, it doesn't exist.
Posted by Smiley on April 15, 2009 at 5:09 PM · Report
30
I just glad matt found it notable that one of the people who testified was a "former track athlete."
Posted by CH on April 15, 2009 at 5:39 PM · Report
31
For clarification: Google his name.
Posted by Matt Davis on April 15, 2009 at 5:58 PM · Report
32
"You would rather do that then knock the damned thing down build a nice AAA baseball park..."

I'd suspect it will actually be a major league park and I'm actually surprised no one seems to be talking about this. The whole MLS forcing the beavers into a new stadium is really seems like just another angle on getting enough folks to agree on building a MLB stadium, from a few years back.

Its sort of annoying they're acting like its some unfortunate side-effect.

Out of curiosity, what is it about the MLS soccer deal that prevents the beavers from playing on the same field? Will the MLS timbers really have more home games then the current timbers? Can PGE really not accommodate both (even after renovations?)
Posted by js on April 15, 2009 at 6:13 PM · Report
33
Why?
Posted by A CAT, probably on April 15, 2009 at 6:16 PM · Report
34
(that was to Matt...)
Posted by A CAT, probably on April 15, 2009 at 6:17 PM · Report
35
I thought Brian Libby was going to be cuter, I may stop reading his blog now.
Posted by monpetitloup on April 15, 2009 at 7:16 PM · Report
36
So purty...

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindducksbeat…
Posted by Jack Acid on April 15, 2009 at 7:20 PM · Report
37
I'm looking forward to Portland becoming the nation's premier sports-driven strip-mall.
Posted by Will Radik on April 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM · Report
38
Garrett, I've read every available document that I've been able to find. What they say is that if the franchise(s) tank Paulson promises to keep paying what he would be paying in ticket taxes into the Spectator Fund.

The documents that are available absolutely do NOT say what you're saying. If you find anywhere in the available documents from the task force or whoever any instance of Paulson promising to pay off all the bonds you let me know.

You are blinded by your excitement for this project and you are just flat out wrong.
Posted by Blabby on April 15, 2009 at 10:56 PM · Report
39
js, the space is too small to be a MLB park. If Portland ever wants MLB, we will have to build yet another stadium somewhere else.
Posted by Michael M. on April 16, 2009 at 4:02 AM · Report
40
like at omsi:

http://www.liquidosity.com/baseballatomsi/

copy paste it. i don't understand computers.
Posted by ben on April 16, 2009 at 10:44 AM · Report
41
oh shit it worked!

i DO understand computers!
Posted by ben on April 16, 2009 at 10:44 AM · Report

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