This Week in the Mercury
Wednesday, April 29, 2009
News Process Trumps Rights? Sit/Lie Renewal Debate...
Posted by Matt Davis on Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM
Council looks ready to vote next week 4-1 to renew the sit/lie law for six months for more public outreach.
"We really appreciate your being here this morning," said Mayor Adams, addressing the 50 or so civil rights protesters gathered in council this morning. "This is a very progressive council committed to compassion." Adams said council is committed to affordable housing but that he was looking to get people's "best ideas" this morning about how to "balance the varying needs" of business people and the homeless.
"We want more time to talk with you, rather than talk at you," said City Commissioner Amanda Fritz. "We could just vote [the sit/lie law] up or down today, but then what? One side would be happy, one side would be mad, and there would be much less incentive for people to come to the table and talk," said Fritz.
"When I campaigned last year I said that I would need a lot more evidence to support this ordinance," Fritz said. "Since I've been in office I've heard from a lot of downtown businesses who are struggling right now and who have said that this ordinance has been helpful."
"This is a human rights issue. Looking at this ordinance I see inhumane treatment for my fellow citizens, and it breaks my heart," said Tobiah Tillman, the first of 23 people signed up to testify.
"I'm very impressed with all the services in Portland tackling homelessness," said Graham Houser. "But this seems to run counter to that. Criminalizing homelessness just adds to the issue and makes it harder for homeless people. Maybe once the Resource Access Center for the homeless opens up, maybe then we can consider this, but until then, it just seems unjust."
"It blows my mind that we're able to talk about saving the earth through green buildings and sustainability while simultaneously criminalizing human existence," said Katie 'Stoop' Nilson, a prominent anti sit/lie activist and organizer during the homeless protests outside city hall last year.
"I don't have an outcome in mind for whether I am aiming to have this repealed or adopted in September," said Fritz, in response. "I think it's a great approach and we are all absolutely open to the results of this process," added Adams. More after the jump.
Other testimony focused on the inequity of the ordinance. "This does not apply to sidewalk cafes or hotels," said one person signed up to testify. "Why do we have to extend this, in order to think about it?" she asked, prompting a round of applause.
"Randy really called me onto the carpet and said if you're going to negotiate you really need to get what you ask, and it was a lesson I greatly appreciate learning from Randy," said Patrick Nolen, a former community organizer for Sisters of the Road, and now member of homeless advocacy organization Soapbox Under the Bridge. "We still haven't got what we asked for two years ago. We're still waiting for a resource access center that is so tied up in red tape, it's disappointing."
"Beyond the resource access center, the other services that we asked for we're still waiting for," Nolen continued. "I really want to call Randy out again, when he recognized that the bathrooms weren't going to be forthcoming, he picked up the bathrooms. I'm constantly hearing about the 471 benches in the downtown area, that this is somehow going to make homelessness better. About half of those are Trimet benches and it's illegal to use those for non-Trimet purposes. When I'm reading this SAFE report, that's one of their big things, that we have 471 benches downtown, but how many of those can't be used for one thing or another?"
"And even past this document, have you guys read this? I'm reading this, and I'm looking at other things," said Nolen, holding a copy of the city's Street Access For Everyone report. "On page ten, they mention what the big problem is. There have been people who lick display windows, spit at, grab or harass pedestrians who refuse to give money. I was homeless for eight years, and I don't remember doing that, but also, all those things are illegal. What possible reason is there for having a law about sitting or lying on the sidewalk, if we're upset about people spitting on others?"
Fish said he didn't want to use criminal statutes to punish the homeless, and that he wanted to understand better what Nolen meant. City Commissioner Randy Leonard said the community can't have it both ways. "I agree with Patrick's point exactly," he said. "When there are behaviors that are criminal, I don't care who is the perpetrator. If they're homeless or mentally ill, I have a very long history of not only trying to help people with those problems but hold them accountable for their various issues," he said.
"I think there are some people on our streets for whom using a criminal law is a mistake," said Fish.
"In a city where we're dealing with 12.5% unemployment and a $6.5million hole in the housing budget, why are we talking about different ways we can criminalize people?" Nolen asked.
"Part of your statement gave me pause as well," said Adams. "If we rely on enforcing the existing statutes, we're going to have a lot more people with criminal arrests. And I want to get them help."
"How many of those 179 people who were cited would have otherwise received criminal citations?" Nolen asked him.
"Be careful what you ask for," said Adams.
"Patrick's point was not that we should enforce criminal laws," said Leonard. "The bigger point was why would we allow to extend a policy that we have demonstrated doesn't work for people with these issues?"
"Your time is up," said Copwatch activist Dan Handelman. "You have had months since the release of the SAFE report and now you are seeking a renewal of this ordinance for another five months. This is an outrage. This abomination of a law needs to be scrapped. It is discriminatory, it is unfair, and as a judge said, it criminalises ordinary behavior. Right now if retailers are suffering low patronage, it's not because of people out there sitting on the sidewalk. It's because they might soon end up being out there on the sidewalk. I've got news for you, Portland Business Alliance and your friends. It could be you."
"The alliance is very pleased to be here today," said Portland Business Alliance CEO, Sandra McDonough, to boos and hisses from the audience. "SAFE is a model of how diverse communities can come together in a city to address problems that have never been addressed before. We look forward to working with commissioners Fritz and Fish. We've heard from a number of neighborhoods that they would like to extend the ordinance out to their neighborhoods, too."
"I am a homeless person, and I did try to get into the Portland Rescue Mission when they had a Winter Response Shelter," said Leo Rhodes. "I can't sit, I can't stand, one time I went and fell asleep on the max. I was awakened by two police officers, and because I have a tendency to keep my hand inside my jacket when I sleep they thought I had a gun, and they woke me up and they were saying, hey, he has a gun. One of the police officers asked me what drugs did I do, I said, I don't do drugs, I've been clean and sober for nine years. Another officer asked me why my eyes were so bloodshot, I said I hadn't slept properly in two days."
"It's encouraging to me that there are so many non-homeless people here who support us," he said. "If you really want to extend this thing, what I encourage you to do is set your alarm, 20 minutes. And when that alarm goes off I want you to get up and walk around a two block radius with a full backpack, inside your house, then go back to bed and walk around for 20 more minutes."
Rhodes got the biggest cheer of the morning for that remark.
"Sit/lie is unfairly enforced against people who are homeless. It violates Portlanders' civil rights," said Devin DiBernado from Sisters of the Road. "Portland should not trade civil rights for direct services. Please be a city that stands up for the rights of all in our community and get rid of sit/lie."
"This is about not in my neighborhood," said another testifier. "But if not in your neighborhood, then where?"
"We were talking earlier about arts funding. But artists aren't only a special creative class," said another. "I was talking to someone earlier who is on the streets with a four year degree in painting."
"I am one of your examples," said Shaggy Simpson, an 18-month Iraq war veteran who is now homeless. "I came back and found that the few freedoms that affect me were gone." He said he had been threatened with violence by Clean & Safe officers. "I see the higher class messing with the lower class, but I don't see the lower class doing anything to the higher class out of fear. You guys all understand what I'm trying to say. This law is garbage."
Fritz asked deputy City Attorney David Woboril if the ordinance had been found unconstitutional. Woboril said that one judge has ruled it is constitutional, and that another judge has found part of it unconstitutional.
"And when was that decision?" asked Fritz
"It was a few months ago," said Woboril.
"And has the city done anything about that decision?"
"The city wasn't a party in that litigation," Woboril responded, adding that the city did not feel that the discussion had been "properly fleshed out" in the court room in that case. "We respect the judge who made the ruling," he insisted. But admitted that the city has made no changes to the law in response.
"Why not let the ordinance expire and have those conversations?" asked City Commissioner Randy Leonard. "In the past, we've had this same kind of debate and I've found myself in the same position as I'm in now. It isn't that difficult of an issue to understand."
Leonard referred to his service coordination team approach as a way of helping homeless people without criminalizing them. The SCT has had controversies of its own.
"You can't just send people to jail," he said. "You have to give them choices."
"I'm willing to do things that people don't like if I think it's the right thing," said Leonard. "But I've heard people today and I think this is the wrong approach."
"I am committed to going through an honest process and public engagement," said City Commissioner Nick Fish. "But I am also grateful that the mayor and my colleagues have also said that housing the homeless is a priority. That first dollars in the budget go to housing."
Fish talked about funding for the Resource Access Center.
"No abstract distractions!" someone shouted from the audience.
"I don't put my name on an ordinance unless I believe in my heart and my head that it's the right thing to do," said Fritz. "It's actually changing my mind from what I thought I would do when I was campaigning last year. But I won't make this decision, feeling like I'm rushed."
The ordinance moved to a second reading next week.
"I hope you become homeless," yelled one audience member. "What goes around comes around," yelled another.
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Threatening me for change with barking dogs, drunkenly pissing and leaving used needles around me is also inhumane, jackass.
I think your comparison is lacking, D! Relativity, for shit's sake.
Maybe we could put them all up at MC.
Comparisons of inhumane treatment
Maranda, you back up your assertions how? Threatening and attacking people is humane? Potentially infecting someone with disease is humane?
"Maybe once the Resource Access Center for the homeless opens up, maybe then we can consider this"
Do they really expect homeless people to just hang out around this place 24 hours a day? It will offer resources, but it won't solve the sit/lie problem.
Come on D that is just a load of BS. I've been aggressively pan handled before but you are being completely hyperbolic with that scenario. Where the hell are you hanging out?
I've seen more public pissing from drunken frat boys downtown than I have ever seen from homeless gutter punks.
Downtown, Northwest, including residential areas where this behavior is chronic. The very reasons this law was passed in the first place.
I won't argue the process of the legislating, but the cops are not mercilessly using the law to keep people 'moving along' it's to prevent abuse and aggressiveness.
Been to the Square lately? SW 12th?
It is a partially workable solution in progress.
hey D, I thought I'd remind you: SCARY POOR PEOPLE GONNA KILL YOU (and take your hard-earned American Freedom-Dollars)
I mean, seriously, tell me about the last time you were "threatened for change". I'm looooling over here.
A) I'm not scared of them, just saying it's criminal behavior.
2)Friday afternoon.
I believe the phrase was 'spare a dime, prevent a crime'
"I believe the phrase was 'spare a dime, prevent a crime'"
To me that sounds like "give me beer money or I'll go steal a 40 from Plaid Pantry" not "give me a dime or I'll kill you."
Nah D, not denying the shittiness of some people's behavior, just pointing out that what these people endure living in the conditions created by systematic poverty are "relatively" more harsh than being (however aggressively) panhandled. It comes across as quite callous that your concern is oriented towards your own personal space and comfort in light of the lives people are leading in the streets--which, despite your concerns, I don't think have much to threaten our lives with.
For clarification: There was ample discussion about targeting criminals for criminal behavior. It seemed to me that the connection between criminal behavior and an individual's right to sit on the sidewalk simply isn't there, although there was disagreement:
>>>>>
"And even past this document, have you guys read this? I'm reading this, and I'm looking at other things," said Nolen, holding a copy of the city's Street Access For Everyone report. "On page ten, they mention what the big problem is. There have been people who lick display windows, spit at, grab or harass pedestrians who refuse to give money. I was homeless for eight years, and I don't remember doing that, but also, all those things are illegal. What possible reason is there for having a law about sitting or lying on the sidewalk, if we're upset about people spitting on others?"
Fish said he didn't want to use criminal statutes to punish the homeless, and that he wanted to understand better what Nolen meant. City Commissioner Randy Leonard said the community can't have it both ways. "I agree with Patrick's point exactly," he said. "When there are behaviors that are criminal, I don't care who is the perpetrator. If they're homeless or mentally ill, I have a very long history of not only trying to help people with those problems but hold them accountable for their various issues," he said.
"I think there are some people on our streets for whom using a criminal law is a mistake," said Fish.
"In a city where we're dealing with 12.5% unemployment and a $6.5million hole in the housing budget, why are we talking about different ways we can criminalize people?" Nolen asked.
"Part of your statement gave me pause as well," said Adams. "If we rely on enforcing the existing statutes, we're going to have a lot more people with criminal arrests. And I want to get them help."
"How many of those 179 people who were cited would have otherwise received criminal citations?" Nolen asked him.
"Be careful what you ask for," said Adams.
"Patrick's point was not that we should enforce criminal laws," said Leonard. "The bigger point was why would we allow to extend a policy that we have demonstrated doesn't work for people with these issues?"<<<<<
It sounds to me like they wanted a dime bag. Do people still talk about bags as dime bags? I know there are a lot of families and individuals out there who are involuntarily homeless due to tragic circumstances. But there are also a lot of just street punks who are there because they chose to be there. They view it as some kind of romantic tough existence, and they are there because of personal choice. These are the ones sitting around with pitbulls and dressing like mad max. Get them the hell out of here.
Oh, and forget about public pissing. If that's not bad enough for you, how about piles of human feces? How about a homeless youth taking a dump on a potted plant in the lobby of your building?
If you are out of work and homelees, why the fuck would you need to sit around on your ass on a sidewalk? Get out and find some work. Get some day labor. Go get some services from the do gooders. Do something but fucking sit around begging for change.
That was wrong then
Oregon Exclusion Law (1849)http://xrl.in/24uk
A BILL TO PREVENT NEGROES AND MULATTOES FROM COMING TO, OR RESIDING IN OREGON, (Enacted by the Oregon Territorial Legislature, (1849)
Sect. 1 Be it enacted by the Legislative Assembly of the Territory of Oregon that it shall not be lawful for any negro or mulatto to enter into, or reside within the limits of this Territory. Providing that nothing in this act shall ....apply to any negro or mulatto now resident in this Territory, nor shall it apply to the offspring of any such as are residents....
Sect. 2 That Masters and owners of vessels having negroes or mulattoes in their employ on board of vessel may bring them into Oregon Provided that in so doing such master, or owner, shall be responsible for the conduct of such negro or mulatto....and shall be liable to any person aggrieved by such negro or mulatto.
Sect. 3 No negro or mulatto shall be permitted to leave the port where the vessel upon which they are or may be employed shall be lying without the written permission of such master or owner....
Sect. 4 That it shall be the duty of masters and owners of vessels having brought negroes or mulattoes into Oregon as aforesaid to cause such negro or mulatto to leave this territory with such vessel upon which the shall have been brought into the Territory, or from some other vessel within forty days.
Sect. 5 If any master or owners of a vessel having brought negroes or mulattoes as provided for in the second section of this act into this Territory, shall fail to remove and take the same with them when leaving the Territory.... shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor....and on conviction, shall be fined and imprisoned at the discretion of the court; Provided that the fine in no case shall be less than five hundred dollars.
Sect. 6 If any negro or mulatto shall be found in this Territory, except as herein before provided and except such as may now be permanent residents, it shall be the duty of any Judge or Justice of the Peace to....to issue a warrant for the apprehension of such negro or mulatto, directed to any sheriff or constable....to arrest....such negro or mulatto....
Sect. 7 If any negro or mulatto shall be found a second time unlawfully remaining in this Territory he shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and shall....upon conviction be fined and imprisoned at the discretion of the court.
Sect. 8 The Governor of this Territory shall cause this act to be published in some one or more of the California newspapers and such other newspapers as he may think necessary in order to carry out the spirit of the same.
This is wrong now
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.s…
And so is this ordinance. Everybody seems to forget we have such a thing as the constitution., although I can see why after eight years of Bush-Cheney. It is wrong to classify a whole group for the actions of a few. If you take that argument to it's logical conclusion, ALL drivers are BAD. ALL yuppies are SICK. ALL teenagers sre SHITS. ALL old people are worthless. Think about this for a real minute
Dale,
I respect your intensity and good arguments.
But streets are not for sleeping on, and making them available as open bedding sites for the addicted and/or mentally ill is not in their interests nor is it in the broader social interst. We need to have a humane, well-organized, effective way to help our lost souls off the streets, period. I would suggest that protesting the ordinance in fact distracts from the crafting of solutions that need to be found and implemented.
Gonetorio, I was one of those people, as you put it, sleeping on the streets. I was not, and am not, addicted to drugs or mentally ill. Know what it took? Just losing my job. There a a lot more people out threr experiencing the same thing. What do we need to do? Stop mouthing the 10 year plan, and put it in action. Most if not alll shelters are so over capacity that you may wait months to get a bed. In the last five years, there has not been near enough affordable housing built to meet the needs thatare out there. Oh, but developers can't seem to make a profit on that, so let's not do it. Just for Shits and giggles, try to get a bed for the night before you go home today, and tell all how successful you were. In the meantime, see if you knowwhere else to go to rest.
Dale,
There needs to be more homeless accomodation built;
or networks created to accomodate the homeless in public facilities, churches, or private homes. I think we understand that. But I'm afraid I don't buy that the lack of accomodation invalidates the sit-lie ordinance, as long as it is strategically enforced.
Do the police really enforce the sit-lie ordinance in all public spaces? There are many places to sleep that are not frequented by pedestrians; last night I found a homeless campsite in a discreet spot on public greenspace that was disturbing noone.
The problem lies in the fact that the deranged homeless go to pedestrian-frequented streets in order to panhandle, and it creates an unpleasant atmosphere for pedestrians, who also have rights to "the pursuit of happiness".
gonetorio sez: "We need to have a humane, well-organized, effective way to help our lost souls off the streets, period. "
Which sit-lie isn't. It's a crumby, half-assed, discriminatory substitute that relies on excessively broad arbitrary power.
Make an ordinance against abusive behavior & give the cops the authority to move people, cite them or whatever for abusive behavior. Sitting and lying down aren't abusive in themselves. I've sometimes bought lunch from a cart and sat in P. Square eating it. No one bothered me. Why should a non-abusive person who someone thinks less aesthetic than me for whatever reason be subjected to different treatment because of their appearance?
Does it bother anyone else that the City Attorney thinks it's o.k. to ignore a court decision and that apparently none of the Commissioners questioned that (maybe that's a piece of Randy L.'s wider view).
"I've Sometimes bought lunch from a cart and sat in P. Square eating it and no one bothered me"
Duh, Because the square isn't the middle of the sidewalk or the NE corner of 6th and Yamhill where people congregate.
We're you drinking booze from a soda cup while you were eating and smoking weed, and then did you PUKE all over the sidewalk and fall in it and exclaim that you took too many Xanax too?! While your friends laughed and let you roll in your vomit?
And then did you get pissed at people who were telling you to move because you were freaking people out?
WELL I HAVE SEEN THIS, More than once!
YAY SUMMER IN PORTLAND!
Douche.
FreddieMac, no I haven't seen what you describe, but I have seen a bunch of drunken louts leaving the bars in downtown and Oldtown/Chinatown piss on the sidewalk, look for a crack dealer, and make fun of those a little less fortunate. I guess it's ok because they smell and look nice and contribute to the mean attitude of some of these narrow minded bigots, right?
No, Dale. These drunken idiots are not OK, what's worse is that they have cars. They get into their cars and drive (Back to Gresham) and kill people.
What's upsetting is that on either side of the spectrum these individuals lack common sense. We are trying to protect people with little common sense. People that don't have respect for the community that they live in, the community that they choose to stay in. Although my comments are harsh I am a kind person. I believe you to be as well.
When I walk throughout town I do not have myself cut off to the world with my ipod and pretend I am in a music video and the people around me are entertainment. I look, I listen, and am very aware of my surroundings and the people in them.
People that truly need help because of mental health issues, addictions, or finacial hardship are worthy of our social graces and assistance.
Those who believe society owes them something because they appear needy, because they play the part, because they are the victim and are waiting for someone to SAVE them will always get taken advantage of.
I am not narrow minded, I find it unacceptable that people who have every oppurtunity to help themselves and their community are overshadowing the reality of people who really need our help and support.
and you ask who am I to judge who needs help and who doesn't, well I am not. All I know is that when you look into someones eyes, when you have a conversation with them, when you are open to their souls without judgement you learn of their intentions.
Not everyone has the best, regardless of the way they look.
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