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Wednesday, May 20, 2009
Neighborhoods Beavers' Stadium: No Numbers to Gnaw On
Posted by Sarah Mirk on Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:12 PM
“We’re here to get the facts,” said Lents Neighborhood Association chair Damien Chakwin to over 70 neighbors who packed into the Lents Elementary School cafeteria tonight to discuss the Beavers ballpark possible slated for their neighborhood. “We should get some information before we make a decision.”
Sadly, there were few facts for the neighbors to discuss. The city and stadium-backer Merritt Paulson have not hammered out the financial details of the ballpark, so despite strong feelings on all sides of the issue, the neighborhood had no final plans to discuss. In a draft budget released last week, Lents Urban Renewal Area would kick in $42 million to build the Beavers a stadium Lents after major league soccer displaces them from PGE Park.
Commissioner Randy Leonard started out the night with a ringing endorsement of the idea: “Putting in a Triple-A stadium is the best thing we could ever possibly do for the neighborhood.” Neighbors were more skeptical.
When a neighbor asked Leonard to get specific about the “nebulous economic development” the stadium would bring, Leonard responded, “Your language betrays your position. The benefit isn’t nebulous at all.”
“Could you point me to something that has concrete details about this?” the neighbor pressed. Beavers’ rep Greg Peden responded: stadium construction would produce 300 union jobs over two years and create approximately 250 permanent jobs running the stadium.
“Then is information out there that will definitively say what the impact of this stadium would be?” another neighbor asked.
“Yes,” replied Leonard, simply. When asked after the meeting what definitive evidence he was referring to, Leonard pointed to the Stanford study of San Diego’s stadium (which another Stanford economist refutes here), a study of a Sacramento stadium (which he couldn't remember the name of) and a study Urban Renewal Advisory Committee chair Cora Potter mentioned during the meeting.
But Potter says that study — in which PDC consultants analyzed Lents businesses — does not definitively show what impact the stadium could have on Lents. The truth is that currently no hard data exists that lays out the economic impact of a stadium on Lents. The PDC just recently commissioned this type of study from consulting group EcoNorthwest and asked them to condense their typically several-month timeline into a couple weeks, hoping that the urban renewal committee will have some actual data to look at before it votes on whether to put $42 million toward the stadium.
In a straw vote at the end of the at-times tense and rowdy two hour meeting, about half of the neighbors opposed the stadium. A smattering of neighbors supported the stadium and a fair number in the middle were undecided — waiting to decide until more solid information surfaces.
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Really? How about putting in sidewalks and properly funding the police department. How about decent schools? Those would be good too. But no, baseball is the best thing we could do.
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What arrogance!!!
He could give 2 shits whether the community of Lents wants this thing.
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But let's go back to Paulson with another offer.
Beavers stay in PGE Park, keeping those sports fans minimally occupied and hot-dog fed.
Paulson fronts the whole deal for a soccer stadium in LENTS.
Suddenly, neighborhood opposition will vanish. Suddenly, soccer stadium will be packed for every game all year, and be VERY profitable.
Why? Who can say no to soccer?
Why? Because there are Latinos out in Lents. Many, many Latinos, stretching as far as the eye can see past Gresham. Stadium could put a game on every five minutes and make money.
White gentry of the likes of Paulson will have to commute, and see people different than them. They will actually have to consider earplugs.
Not to be stereotypative, or anything, but please recall an entire Latino nation of many many many millions going on a week-long national party when cup was won by Brazil back a few years.
When you think soccer, think Pele. Think Ronaldo. Think Mexico, Brazil, Spain. And imagine soccer where there is a gigantic market for it. Of course, people like Paulson are probably too braindead to imagine this.
Or to imagine saving 20 Million on renovating PGE for the second time in a decade.
Or to imagine REALLY investing in a part of the city that REALLY needs it.
Just make sure it's not to close to my favorite tango spot,
Tango Berretin on 60th and Foster.
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civic stadium is perfect for the Timbers. period. you obviously know nothing about the sport and its fanbase in portland. beyond that, civic stadium sux for AAA baseball, and is too small for MLB.
personally i'm not convinced that Lents is the right location for this stadium (i think the expo center/delta park makes tons more sense, but that's just me...). blabby quotes the most ridiculous statement from Leonard: “Putting in a Triple-A stadium is the best thing we could ever possibly do for the neighborhood.” the sheer arrogance and/or ignorance in that one sentence is staggering. what a utter fucking tool this man is.
is it time for a revolution yet?
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Eric, please look up racist in the dictionary.
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Frankly, I don't think we should commit much more than $10 to redoing PGE either. We're still paying off the last improvements.
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With regards to thye equation between latinos and soccer, I spent nine years between the ages of 6 and 15 in Spain and saw soccer, a lot of soccer, really a lot of soccer, like ubiquitous, like, always on the TV in every cafe and in everyone's homes and being played every day in every conceivable corner allowable and possible.
Fast forward 20 years to Portland , watching my son's classic soccer games and always being reminded that the best teams, bar none, were ones with a lot of latino kids. And when you got to the teams with all-latino kids, they creamed everyone in sight.
So hey, call me racist, I don't mind.
I love soccer, and want it to succeed. I DO wonder if the soccer fanbase wouldn't exponentially increase, making the whole deal more PROFITABLE, if MLS were not in Lents, with more accessability to our Latino population.
Profitability is a big issue to consider. when the busy latino workers with money to spend at the end of the day can get to soccer at a hop, skip and jump, versus taking the train downtown, there is just more likely to be a steady draw to the place. (As opposed to say, the other venues on 82nd). Ooh, is that racist too?
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1) a new soccer stadium in Lents would cost twice or three times as much as the deal on the table right now. 20,000 seats instead of just 6-9,000.
2) yes, latinos are soccer crazy. some of them are crazy for the timbers, but the majority are crazy for teams in Europe or where their families are from. "Build it and the latinos will come" has buried many soccer teams over the years (look at Chivas USA, who thought just by being a part of the Chivas brand and plopping themselves down in LA would bring out the latinos. it didn't). it takes a long hard slog of outreach and marketing to convince that market. So just because there are more latinos in east county isn't by itself enough justification to put a soccer stadium out there when we have one that's already decent, which could become fantastic with the freedom afforded by not having to share with the beavers.
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Complainer: “Why are we only hearing about this now? I live on Lents Park. This effects me”.
NA Leader/Leonard etc: “We have sent you three notices in the mail, a postcard, a survey and have been having monthly meetings about this since last August”.
Complainer: “I don’t check my mail!”.
NA Leader/Leonard etc: “Well, we also have sent out regular email updates and have everything posted on ILoveLents.com with a calendar of events and documents etc”
Complainer: “My internet is broken, I don’t check my email”
NA Leader/Leonard: “Well we also did knock on doors directly around the park about this a while back”
Complainer: “I wasn’t home.”
NA Leader/Leonard etc: “So what are you saying?”
Complainer: “It’s all your fault that I don’t check my mail, my internet connection doesn’t work, I don’t check my email and you didn’t knock on my door at a time convenient to me therefore I oppose this effort.”
On a different note why don’t we talk about the incredible opportunities this gives Lents for the other 250 nights a year?
Ideas – 1)A Lents Farmers Market on the brick parking pavers. 2) Summer Music Festival of some sort. 3) Beer/Food/Wine Fest 4) Friday family move nights at the stadium for free for Lents residents etc. The possibilities are endless.
Right now you basically have a stadium that really can’t be used with people in the stands and a soccer field that is so dangerous that I know a number of teams who won’t play there any more.
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MLS should get PGE.
Let the Beavers go to Salem.
Or let Paulson build a baseball stadium on his own dime somewhere where it's not necessary to cut down 40 mature trees at a local park. That 92nd place would be perfect. WHY does Leonard want it on that park?
And Jake is right. Spain in the 1970's doesn't apply to Portland in the 21st century. In fact, sports is passe altogether. Such a pity.
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I like how you always use Jack Bogdanski's language. It makes me feel warm inside to know you're just another Jack Bog sycophant...more willing to blog away and comment than actually be active in your community.
About the latino population. They do turn out for top level soccer. This game last year was particularly fun.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/sportsupdates/2…
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You're pretty much Paulson's parrot, so your one to be talking.
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Did you think that comment was so friggin brilliant that you had to post it on multiple websites in response to last night's meeting?
Portraying your opposition as whiny, stupid and childish is NOT clever or cute. And it is certainly NOT persuasive.
What an insufferable boor.
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Regardless, if we can't have soccer in Lents because money or will can't be found, I find the idea of public money spent on baseball there to be a non-starter.
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Why even mention England, the original first-world country, where soccer has been developed over many decades into an institution of subliminal warfare, and besides, less than 75% of English city dwellers are white?!
I suggested consideration of Lents for soccer, because of a potentially huge Latino/Somali/Eastern European fan base there that would make it more profitable, and suggested Paulson foot the entire bill for a more profitable soccer stadium there. People who likely know more than I do think surging numbers of fans from our ethnic neighborhoods is a pipe-dream. Fine, they're probably right.
But in a brief discussion on the topic, certain people go into attack-dog mode....why?
This does not further the cause of soccer.
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