This Week in the Mercury
Thursday, May 28, 2009
News Sustainable Portland Ships In 25 Tons Of Snow
Posted by Matt Davis on Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:46 PM
When the Mercury ran its Little Dubai story earlier this year, we were talking specifically about a hasty new approach to development that placed size and glitter over long-term planning and the best interests of the city. Portland is UNLIKE Dubai because it doesn't have an indoor mountain covered in fake snow, some pointed out. Well...not so fast. An email from Taylor Murray this morning:
I manage the Cricket Campus Rail Jam Tour, a national ski and snowboard competition that visits major college campuses across the western US. From San Diego to Salt Lake City, the Tour visits 12 universities in eight states between the months of February and May, hauling-in over 25 tons of snow and the area's best up-and-coming skiers and snowboarders to compete for cash and product from our sponsors. A 14-person event crew travels from event to event in huge tour bus, creating buzz in the cities and causing a ruckus in the nightlife scenes. The Tour gives amateur riders an opportunity to showcase their skills on a professional-level setup, and a chance to break into the pro snowboard world.The finals for the 2009 Tour are taking place on May 30th in Pioneer Courthouse Square. Temperatures may be in the 70's, but over 25 tons of snow will be trucked-in from Mt Hood to turn the square into a huge winter wonderland. Three custom rail features will be mounted onto a 100ft long scaffolding structure to create a professional-level competition setup. 100 of the Tour's top competitors have qualified to compete in the finals and will be attending the final showdown. Olympic athlete and X-games announcer, Todd Richards, will be hosting the event with hilarious commentary. After the winners have been crowned, a huge after party will ensue at a downtown nightclub.
We've put a call in to the mayor's office to ask how shipping 25 tons of snow into the city's living room fits with the mayor's sustainability agenda. No call back just yet. But we'll let you know.
1
"A 14-person event crew travels from event to event in huge tour bus"
Sure beats flying, sustainability-wise.
Where does it say the city is funding this in any way? Isn't this just a private group renting out the square like so many others? (An annoying, but separate issue.)
I'll bet Matt $5 and/or a beer that a full carbon-analysis (should anyone care to do it) shows that it is slightly less intensive to truck the snow in to the square than it is to drive every intended audience member out to Mt. Hood.
(And for the poor soul who performs the analysis, how about Matt and I both chip in a beer, so there's no bias toward either side? You up for it, Matt?)
Sure beats flying, sustainability-wise.
Where does it say the city is funding this in any way? Isn't this just a private group renting out the square like so many others? (An annoying, but separate issue.)
I'll bet Matt $5 and/or a beer that a full carbon-analysis (should anyone care to do it) shows that it is slightly less intensive to truck the snow in to the square than it is to drive every intended audience member out to Mt. Hood.
(And for the poor soul who performs the analysis, how about Matt and I both chip in a beer, so there's no bias toward either side? You up for it, Matt?)
2
Bob, I would actually be more interested in finding out if it would be more efficient to just create artificial snow onsite rather than shipping it in.
Otherwise, the event actually sounds pretty cool.
And not to mention the part where the Merc gets to gloat over being slightly prescient.
Otherwise, the event actually sounds pretty cool.
And not to mention the part where the Merc gets to gloat over being slightly prescient.
5
They like totally did this last year brah!
It was really weird afterwards too because they dumped the snow in the pearl and I ended up falling in it that night after trying to jump over it on my bike. Nothing like snow in the pearl in June.
It was really weird afterwards too because they dumped the snow in the pearl and I ended up falling in it that night after trying to jump over it on my bike. Nothing like snow in the pearl in June.
6
"Bob, I would actually be more interested in finding out if it would be more efficient to just create artificial snow onsite rather than shipping it in."
That's a very good question... it takes a lot of energy to freeze water... but does it take so much energy compared to the amount required to truck nature-made snow down from the mountain?
That's a very good question... it takes a lot of energy to freeze water... but does it take so much energy compared to the amount required to truck nature-made snow down from the mountain?
7
Okay. So we have
1. Truck snow in.
2. Truck people out to Mt. Hood
3. Make snow onsite.
4. (My proposal) Have volunteers hand shred all the library books and carry this "artificial snow" to the square in buckets! Human power!
1. Truck snow in.
2. Truck people out to Mt. Hood
3. Make snow onsite.
4. (My proposal) Have volunteers hand shred all the library books and carry this "artificial snow" to the square in buckets! Human power!
8
Yawn. Davis, you're a reporter, do some goddamn research before throwing out some random assumption in a field that is obviously far from your area of expertise. Using the Climate Trust's carbon counter template, it's pretty damn easy to figure out.
An average 18-wheeler gets about 5-6 mpg when loaded, and would likely hold 25 tons of snow. To be conservative, let's say you'd need two trucks. From Timberline to Pioneer Courthouse Square is roughly 60 miles. 240 miles x 5.0 mpg in the calculator yields 0.42 metric tons of CO2.
Assume 200 passenger vehicles travel from Portland up to Timberline to watch the event, a 120 mile round trip. That's 24,000 vehicle miles. Using 18 mpg as a conservative estimate of fleet mileage, you get 11.71 metric tons of CO2.
Granted, those spectators are not arriving at Pioneer Square via carbon-free transportation. But still, that's over an order of magnitude in difference, even if you tweak the numbers even more to the conservative side. Bob, Matt, I'll have a couple of pints of Upright #6 on you, you name the time. Or just paypal it to me, that works, too.
An average 18-wheeler gets about 5-6 mpg when loaded, and would likely hold 25 tons of snow. To be conservative, let's say you'd need two trucks. From Timberline to Pioneer Courthouse Square is roughly 60 miles. 240 miles x 5.0 mpg in the calculator yields 0.42 metric tons of CO2.
Assume 200 passenger vehicles travel from Portland up to Timberline to watch the event, a 120 mile round trip. That's 24,000 vehicle miles. Using 18 mpg as a conservative estimate of fleet mileage, you get 11.71 metric tons of CO2.
Granted, those spectators are not arriving at Pioneer Square via carbon-free transportation. But still, that's over an order of magnitude in difference, even if you tweak the numbers even more to the conservative side. Bob, Matt, I'll have a couple of pints of Upright #6 on you, you name the time. Or just paypal it to me, that works, too.
9
25 tons of snow is one semi truck load. Fresh powder might take a triple, (only because of the volume,) but if they pack it into the semi with heavy equipment you could get it into a standard trailer. Mt Hood is about 50 miles away, and semi trucks get around 7 mpg on diesel (22.4 lbs/gallon) so round trip, trucking in the snow runs about 300 lbs of CO2. Loading and unloading the snow will use a certain amount of energy as well, but not that much.
For comparison the tour bus probably gets about the same gas mileage, and will seat 40ish, so assuming it makes the trip from Portland to Mt Hood, it will also run 300 lbs. If more than 40 people (okay 40-14 crew=26) want to go, then that is a loss. If the people drove in separate cars at 25 mpg (gas 19.6 lbs/gallon) then if more than 4 people went it would be a loss. If they carpooled at 4 per car, (and keep in mind these are snowboarders, so they've got equipment and shoes and cold weather clothing, so expecting them to pack 5 in a Civic isn't going to happen,) then if more than 16 people wanted to come, (i.e. the crew plus 2 more,) then it would be a loss.
(So Bob is right, and Bob and Matt owe me a beer. :-)
However, those are false choices. How about you do winter sports in the winter, and summer sports 2 days before June? There are several skateparks in this town, and you could ride the skateboard to the skate park for no carbon at all.
For comparison the tour bus probably gets about the same gas mileage, and will seat 40ish, so assuming it makes the trip from Portland to Mt Hood, it will also run 300 lbs. If more than 40 people (okay 40-14 crew=26) want to go, then that is a loss. If the people drove in separate cars at 25 mpg (gas 19.6 lbs/gallon) then if more than 4 people went it would be a loss. If they carpooled at 4 per car, (and keep in mind these are snowboarders, so they've got equipment and shoes and cold weather clothing, so expecting them to pack 5 in a Civic isn't going to happen,) then if more than 16 people wanted to come, (i.e. the crew plus 2 more,) then it would be a loss.
(So Bob is right, and Bob and Matt owe me a beer. :-)
However, those are false choices. How about you do winter sports in the winter, and summer sports 2 days before June? There are several skateparks in this town, and you could ride the skateboard to the skate park for no carbon at all.
10
OK, ElGordo and Matthew D have both done some analysis, just minutes apart.
Matt never agreed to the contest rules, but I'll pay my share to these first two winners.
(No more winners allowed after those two. :-) )
Matt never agreed to the contest rules, but I'll pay my share to these first two winners.
(No more winners allowed after those two. :-) )
11
Well, this has been fascinating. But I agree with Matthew D about the "false choices." And Bob: There's a reason I didn't agree to your terms.
12
At most of these events the snow is placed pretty sparingly, usually just on the approach ramp and at the base of the rails, so this is absolutely nothing like building an indoor mountain covered in fake snow that would run year round. This is a one time event that tons of snowboarding fans in the Portland area would love to check out, not a reason to get up on the sustainability high-horse.
13
Good lord. Have you seen the shit boxes that the Merc uses to deliver it's papers all over the city? You are better off making a duck beer bong a gallon of 40 weight motor oil with all the emissions and leaks those hunks of shit have.
And not to mention YOU MAKE FUCKING NEWSPAPERS. You guys can play some rolls but environmentalist is not one of them.
And not to mention YOU MAKE FUCKING NEWSPAPERS. You guys can play some rolls but environmentalist is not one of them.
16
Portland should build a huge molten-lava fire pit in the middle of Timberline's ski area during peak ski season as revenge fodder.
17
Upon further consideration, Bob, just donate my beer money to carbonfund.org. If Matthew D. agrees to the same thing, that ten bucks will offset 1 ton of carbon, enough for the entire event and a little bit left over. Problem solved, and Matt Davis can find another controversy to manufacture.
And Matt, no, I don't think it's a false choice - there's snow at Timberline year round. Why would the fact that the calendar says it's May preclude a snowboarding event from taking place up there this weekend? It's no less absurd to move the snow to Pioneer Square this weekend than it would be in January.
And Matt, no, I don't think it's a false choice - there's snow at Timberline year round. Why would the fact that the calendar says it's May preclude a snowboarding event from taking place up there this weekend? It's no less absurd to move the snow to Pioneer Square this weekend than it would be in January.
18
Sure it is absurd. Just because an event is less harmful to the environment, but nevertheless harmful, doesn't mean one cannot criticize it based on things like symbolic gestures. How about an arbor day tree planting to replace the silly bricks?
Why not donate the money to groups that encourage reducing the population? After all, if you really want to reduce carbon footprint, you will want to kill off humans. Producing just one child uses far more of the earth's natural resources than any one person could reasonably offset with the carbon offset program. People use energy, they use it almost exclusively dirtily, no matter how or where they live. It damages the environment just to make solar cells, and you can not, and will not ever produce enough solar cells to effectively replace oil/gas/dirty fuel.
Perhaps Concentrated Solar Power, one day.
Why not donate the money to groups that encourage reducing the population? After all, if you really want to reduce carbon footprint, you will want to kill off humans. Producing just one child uses far more of the earth's natural resources than any one person could reasonably offset with the carbon offset program. People use energy, they use it almost exclusively dirtily, no matter how or where they live. It damages the environment just to make solar cells, and you can not, and will not ever produce enough solar cells to effectively replace oil/gas/dirty fuel.
Perhaps Concentrated Solar Power, one day.
19
Bob: Someday we'll convince Alison to change Trivia night to catch phrase night and you can buy me a beer then. Of course, I just finished paying off the loan on my solar panels, so I can afford my own beer just fine right now...
ElGordo: It is about appearances. It is sort of like showing up to church in a bikini; sure, they probably won't kick you out, but it is inappropriate. If you want to call yourself green, trucking in snow in 80 degree weather is just something that you shouldn't do.
thelastfewdays: Funny story, but I tried to get the distribution job for another paper on town, (a monthly that would only take a few hours a month,) and wanted to do it by bicycle, (I've got a huge trailer: I did the math on the weights and volume and told them it was very doable.) And I got turned down because they wanted someone with a car.
ElGordo: It is about appearances. It is sort of like showing up to church in a bikini; sure, they probably won't kick you out, but it is inappropriate. If you want to call yourself green, trucking in snow in 80 degree weather is just something that you shouldn't do.
thelastfewdays: Funny story, but I tried to get the distribution job for another paper on town, (a monthly that would only take a few hours a month,) and wanted to do it by bicycle, (I've got a huge trailer: I did the math on the weights and volume and told them it was very doable.) And I got turned down because they wanted someone with a car.
22
Matthew D - Yeah, but you and I both just showed that a bikini would be more efficient church attire than a suit, didn't we? Likewise, the onus is then on the promoters to show that staging the event in the city is more efficient from a carbon standpoint than having everyone drive out to the mountain.
I wonder if some of the leftover snow could be taken to PSU and OHSU and used in their chiller plants. That'd cut down the AC bill this weekend.
I wonder if some of the leftover snow could be taken to PSU and OHSU and used in their chiller plants. That'd cut down the AC bill this weekend.
23
ElGordo: No we didn't show that. We showed that between the bikini and the T-shirt that said "Jesus died for your sins, make it worth his while" that the bikini was the better choice. It is exactly like the CRC, if you compare a bad idea to a worse idea, the bad idea looks good. But the best choice is still skateboard demonstrations in 85 degree weather, (at 0 lbs of CO2.)
24
ElGordo -
I don't know if you're still reading, but per your request I've donated $10 to Carbonfund.org, order # 504512.
I don't know if you're still reading, but per your request I've donated $10 to Carbonfund.org, order # 504512.
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