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Tuesday, July 7, 2009

Transportation Streetcars Will Each Cost $450,000 More Than Portlanders Were Told

Posted by Sarah Mirk on Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 4:34 PM

A cast of big name politicians including Ray LaHood unveiled the first Portland's six new streetcars last week, praising the streetcar construction's creation of 90 regional jobs and its impact on green transit. What wasn't mentioned at the press conference is the cost of each streetcar. When City Council votes tomorrow on whether to put $20 million toward the Eastside Streetcar Loop, it will hear from Oregon Iron Works, who won the bid to build six streetcars for $20 million. That cost pencils out to $3.33 million for each car.

That's $450,000 more per car than the cost estimate presented to Portlanders during the widely-attended Streetcar System Plan Open Houses back in May.
6f96/1247007417-streetcar_pricing.png

The cost comparison poster from the full series of Streetcar Plan posters. (pdf)

Streetcar Inc Executive Director Rick Gustafson says the May open house presentations were using old numbers, most likely projections based on the costs of Portland's old streetcars, which were built in the Czech Republic. Streetcar Inc received the $3.3 million price estimate in late April.

"Shouldn't you have had the most current numbers in the open house presentation?" I asked. Those meetings were the big chance Portlanders got the chance to review the whole Streetcar plan and ask questions of planners in person before tomorrow's council vote.
"Sure, that would have been nice," Gustafson replied. He says the cost estimates will be updated for any upcoming presentations.

The Eastside Loop's overall $148 million budget comes from a variety of sources. The state is covering the $20 million cost of the cars and the federal government is kicking in $75 million. The feds and Oregon Ironworks covered the entire cost of the prototype car unveiled last week — as the first of the series, it wound up costing over $7 million to build.

 

Comments (22) RSS

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1
Shocking!! They sold the plan and then the costs suddenly rose? What a bad break. I'm so sick of getting lied to.
Posted by Nap34 on July 7, 2009 at 4:43 PM · Report
2
So your complaining about a 13% cost increase in order to produce the cars locally? Really?

You'd rather give $17.4M to the Czech Republic than to give $20M to businesses in Oregon?

And a 13% cost over-run for a public works project isn't even all that high. Try looking at construction projects in places like Boston or Chicago and see how their budgeting worked out for 'em.
Posted by Graham on July 7, 2009 at 4:46 PM · Report
3
I agree. Misplaced complaint. They are creating jobs here - its worth a little extra dough. Considering, the cost of Czech labor is likely less and the price of steel has been rising. There are many budget complaints to be made, this isn't really worthy.
Posted by Mizzzzzzz on July 7, 2009 at 4:52 PM · Report
4
I think, in the cost per vehicle category, bikes still come out on top. ;-).

Where's $20 million from ODOT for a system of bikeways! Kidding. Sadly.
Posted by Jonathan Maus - BikePortland.org on July 7, 2009 at 5:09 PM · Report
5
Graham and Mizzzzz,

For me the issue isn't that it costs more to make the cars locally, but that the public presentations included the old pricetag when planners had the new estimates in their hands.
Posted by s.mirk on July 7, 2009 at 5:24 PM · Report
6
Sarah, are you saying they should of double czeched the numbers?
Posted by Rusty! on July 7, 2009 at 5:27 PM · Report
7
What do you call a Czecheslovokian woman who has had an abortion? A cancelled Czech!
Posted by Robert Collins on July 7, 2009 at 6:01 PM · Report
8
And the obesity epidemic continues...
Posted by NIG GER on July 7, 2009 at 6:09 PM · Report
9
OMG!!!!!1!!!
More city officials who lied to the people!!

Quick, call in Jason Wurster!
I mean...if all the lying is the reason for the other recall, then these people need to be removed as well.
Posted by blownspeakers on July 7, 2009 at 6:57 PM · Report
10
It would be interesting to find out how much of the $20 million is given back to the state in the form of taxes.
Posted by ujfoyt on July 7, 2009 at 7:45 PM · Report
11
Don't worry, that is only 225,000 extra rides guys to make up for it.
Posted by NIG GER on July 7, 2009 at 8:31 PM · Report
12
Hi Blownspeakers,

You can always call Jasun Wurster at 503-799-7919 to talk about holding politicians accountable and to discuss the Recall of Sam Adams.

You don't have to feel shy about giving out my phone number ;)

jasun
Posted by Jasun Wurster on July 7, 2009 at 10:36 PM · Report
13
So, Jasun...are you saying there will be an immediate call for removal of these officials as well?

You have no problem publicly discussing Adams' recall, yet seem to deflect when it comes to other lying politicians/city officials who people don't seem to care about when they lie about matters that actually effect the city.
Posted by blownspeakers on July 7, 2009 at 11:56 PM · Report
14
The whole streetcar thing is another PORK BARREL project.

What I would really like to know, is how that contract breaks down in the payroll.

Like how much to the executives of the company?

They just lie and lie and lie and all the while line their pockets with our tax money.

What a world.
Posted by Al M on July 8, 2009 at 12:24 AM · Report
15
The streetcar system plan estimates were based primarily on past costs. There is no requirement that future streetcar projects, as proposed by the system plan, use streetcars from Oregon Iron Works (United Streetcar LLC division) -- unless federal funds are involved, there isn't a "buy local" mandate, so more companies could easily bid on streetcar vehicles. There's also no indication, if OIW is successful at building streetcar for multiple cities in the long run, that the prices would be as high as they are for the limited run of five or six.

The Streetcar Loop project you are using for the new cost figures is not actually a part of the streetcar system plan and has a couple of unique features: The first use of federal "small starts" grants for a streetcar project, and the first locally-made modern low-floor streetcars, so it is not surprising that costs are different this go-around.

Posted by Bob R. on July 8, 2009 at 7:41 AM · Report
16
yep.
Posted by Bones on July 8, 2009 at 9:47 AM · Report
17
the tram is looking down at the street car project and laughing for only being 450k over budget. a cheap date as far as portland politics goes.
Posted by Bones on July 8, 2009 at 10:04 AM · Report
18
14% overage is *peanuts*. The cost associated with this project pays for an Oregon company to get the jump on a market that is going to explode over the next ten years, that is a huge, huge win. When in the future, you look at the long term costs of outfitting Oregon Ironworks to build these things, you're going to find that it was money well spent. They're the first american company to build street cars in like 60 years or something ... at a time when pretty much every major american city is just beginning to seriously consider major streetcar and railway projects.
Posted by joeBoy on July 8, 2009 at 10:59 AM · Report
19
I wouldn't go so far as to call it an "overage"... the Streetcar System Plan estimate is not even the same project as the Streetcar Loop, and by admission the Streetcar System Plan estimates are merely ballpark figures. Even if they were costs for the same project (they aren't), a preliminary chart shown at an open house is not a project budget. The City Council hasn't even voted on the routes yet, much less on any kind of budget or funding plan. There is no "overage" here.
Posted by Bob R. on July 8, 2009 at 11:14 AM · Report
20
Just curious - what kind of ridership are they estimating for our $20 million dollar investment from C of P and the over all $148 million a year ?
Posted by Finnegan on July 8, 2009 at 1:49 PM · Report
21
Why is everyone referring to this as the first US streetcars in 60 years?
Actually, according to the link below Siemens has been making Streetcars in Sacramento for a while now.

Perhaps these sorts of articles should be amended to First US OWNED Streetcar manufacturer?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/busine…

Here is the Sacramento plant.

Last I checked Sacramento was in the US!

http://www.mobility.siemens.com/usa/en/pub…

(no I don't work for Siemens- it's just that this company has ben making and shipping LRVs to US Cities FROM the US for some time now.
Posted by cmiles on July 8, 2009 at 3:20 PM · Report
22
Cmiles -

I agree it is rather subjective as to when a "streetcar" becomes an "LRV", and people tend to make the claim using only the word "streetcar" without qualification, but the United Streetcar / Oregon Iron Works vehicle represents the first modern low-floor design (as opposed to a replica) which can operate under the tight turning constraints of what has typically been known as a "streetcar" in this country (whereas most full-size LRVs cannot make these turns). The United Streetcar vehicle is also narrower, and thus able to operate in lanes where other LRV-style designs would be too wide.

It's a definition that requires a few caveats and explanations, but it's not beyond the pale to make the claim.
Posted by Bob R. on July 9, 2009 at 12:39 AM · Report

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