This Week in the Mercury
Tuesday, July 28, 2009
News Private Security Still Enforcing Sit/Lie?
Posted by Matt Davis on Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Some private security guards in Portland still don't appear to have heard that the controversial sit/lie ordinance has been revoked. 
SECURITAS RENT-A-COP: ALLEGEDLY ASKED MAN SITTING ON SIDEWALK TO MOVE...
Soapbox Under The Bridge activist Dale Hardway—who is always out and about, looking out for discrimination against homelessness by the police and private security—says he snapped a photograph of this Securitas guard outside Rite Aid at 12:30 today, after the guard asked a man who was sitting on the sidewalk outside the building to move to the other side of the sidewalk, nearest the street.
"He told me he'd just come from a meeting with the property owner and that they didn't want people leaning up against the side of the building," says Hardway. "But I told him it's too bad. That's the public right of way and he had no jurisdiction over it."
We called Securitas and eventually spoke to someone who is "looking into" the alleged incident. We'll update this post if there's a response.
1
"always out and about, looking out for discrimination against homelessness by the police and private security'
So he will eventually find one, reality be damned. A security guard asks a bum to move off of private property and it makes the "news"
I eagerly anticipate the update on the oppressed bum.
So he will eventually find one, reality be damned. A security guard asks a bum to move off of private property and it makes the "news"
I eagerly anticipate the update on the oppressed bum.
2
umm..if you're leaning against the side of a building then you're leaning against private property...?
3
I witnessed the same thing the other day at the 1000 Broadway building (the "Ban Roll-On" building) -- don't lean against the building, albeit it was said in a nice way. I think it was the same guard, too.
4
Last I knew, a sidewalk is PUBLIC property, and that means anyone may use it. I hope I see Private Security enforcing something on you they have no right to. D, come out of your shell and see what really goes on sometime, not just what you read in the Whorigonian
5
Also, it seems like there's a pretty big difference between "telling," "ordering," "citing," "forcibly removing," and "asking." I like the Soapbox guys, but come on. Being asked to move is not a violation of anyone's civil rights.
6
My shell? It sounds like what 'really goes on' is a business person frustrated by bums leaning on the building driving away customers wanted them gone.
Sure anyone can USE public property, but if you don't give someone a reason to ask you to leave - they won't ask you to leave.
Sure anyone can USE public property, but if you don't give someone a reason to ask you to leave - they won't ask you to leave.
7
As long as you recognize their right to say "No, I'm fine right here", otherwise it's a threat regardless of how politely it's put.
9
I'd like to point out that while Sit/Lie was revoked, it was revoked because forcing people off public sidewalks was ALREADY COVERED UNDER STATE LAW, namely, disorderly conduct. If you read Police Chief Sizer's memo release the day after the ruling, she basically says to keep arresting homeless people, just do it under disorderly conduct instead of Sit/Lie.
10
Um...I'd like to point out that, while Sit/Lie was revoked, it was revoked because it was REDUNDANT UNDER STATE LAW, that is, lying on the sidewalk was covered under 'Disorderly Conduct.' If you read Police Chief Sizer's memo, released the day after the ruling in June, she basically says to just keep arresting homeless people, just do it under disorderly conduct instead of sit/lie.
11
I find the greenpeace/save the children people on the corners far, far more offensive than anybody leaning against a building. They know not to mess with me now...
12
Sirs:
Give me your poor, your wretched, your huddled masses and hassle them until they move East past 162nd Avenue into Gresham.
Why, I'm told one unfortunate member of the Arlington Club was actually panhandled recently by a man driving a Mercedes trying to save up enough money to join the Mac Club. When will the lower classes get the message and abandon downtown to those deserving Anglo Saxon few who own the city?
Humbly,
Jacomus
P.S. Did you know that not that many years ago clerks at Meier + Frank would not wait on women wearing slacks? That a woman not wearing white gloves, dress, hose and shoes with sensible heels was considered a strumpet and a tart and would not be served at any of the finer Portland eateries? That the most exlusive brothel in Portland stood where Nordstroms now resides - just two blocks from the Arlington Club. Handy, no?
Give me your poor, your wretched, your huddled masses and hassle them until they move East past 162nd Avenue into Gresham.
Why, I'm told one unfortunate member of the Arlington Club was actually panhandled recently by a man driving a Mercedes trying to save up enough money to join the Mac Club. When will the lower classes get the message and abandon downtown to those deserving Anglo Saxon few who own the city?
Humbly,
Jacomus
P.S. Did you know that not that many years ago clerks at Meier + Frank would not wait on women wearing slacks? That a woman not wearing white gloves, dress, hose and shoes with sensible heels was considered a strumpet and a tart and would not be served at any of the finer Portland eateries? That the most exlusive brothel in Portland stood where Nordstroms now resides - just two blocks from the Arlington Club. Handy, no?
13
whichever law it is that is being enforced, private security guards cannot enforce it.
its a public law, not a "rule" by a building or company.
if someone breaks the law, let the real police handle it.
thanks
Patrick
its a public law, not a "rule" by a building or company.
if someone breaks the law, let the real police handle it.
thanks
Patrick
14
If the bums are leaning against a building Patrick, it is perfectly in the realm of private security. This isn't a police state and people are absolutely allowed to protect their property against harm and devaluation.
And Dale Hardaway, you lost any credibility when you compared laws against black people who had no say in the way they were born to people who made bad life choices and expect the public to foot their bill to recovery. Please STFU.
Fuck, please tell me that it's only a Portland thing where former beggars are the most sanctimonious pricks of all.
And Dale Hardaway, you lost any credibility when you compared laws against black people who had no say in the way they were born to people who made bad life choices and expect the public to foot their bill to recovery. Please STFU.
Fuck, please tell me that it's only a Portland thing where former beggars are the most sanctimonious pricks of all.
15
Patrick,
Perhaps all the facts aren't here, but am I to understand that asking anyone to move is an invocation of Sit/Lie? If the security guard said "hey, you need to move or I'll have you arrested" sure, but it seems like that wasn't the case here.
Property owners can be found liable for things that happen in the public areas surrounding their property. Leaning on a window or door, for instance, which unexpectedly gives way. It happens. A possible argument in court is that there were security guards on the premise and they did nothing to prevent the accident.
So in this instance a polite request seems merited. If there was a fancy man in a top hat doing the same thing and he was ignored, I guess that's an instance of classicism, but otherwise it's a reasonable request by an agent of the property owner.
Perhaps all the facts aren't here, but am I to understand that asking anyone to move is an invocation of Sit/Lie? If the security guard said "hey, you need to move or I'll have you arrested" sure, but it seems like that wasn't the case here.
Property owners can be found liable for things that happen in the public areas surrounding their property. Leaning on a window or door, for instance, which unexpectedly gives way. It happens. A possible argument in court is that there were security guards on the premise and they did nothing to prevent the accident.
So in this instance a polite request seems merited. If there was a fancy man in a top hat doing the same thing and he was ignored, I guess that's an instance of classicism, but otherwise it's a reasonable request by an agent of the property owner.
16
So, all things aside, are you aware that it was over 100 fucking degrees today? I walked by this very place today, several times. There were three heroine users about to DIE because they were high and passing out and dehydrated. I told them about the cooling tent in the square and offered them water.
If "activist Dale Hardway—who is always out and about, looking out for discrimination against homelessness " really gave a shit he would understand that it would be ideal for people not to DIE in front of Rite Aid.
These people had NO idea even how to take care of themselves and were incoherently high in insane heat.
That "man that was sitting there" Eventually was passed out against the wall.
Where do we draw the line in protecting peoples right to let themselves die? If they did die I am sure this article would be titled "Rent-a-cop lets people die!"
If "activist Dale Hardway—who is always out and about, looking out for discrimination against homelessness " really gave a shit he would understand that it would be ideal for people not to DIE in front of Rite Aid.
These people had NO idea even how to take care of themselves and were incoherently high in insane heat.
That "man that was sitting there" Eventually was passed out against the wall.
Where do we draw the line in protecting peoples right to let themselves die? If they did die I am sure this article would be titled "Rent-a-cop lets people die!"
17
No, Logan 5, you STFU until you get a real grip. We outlawed vigilantes in the 1800's for a reason. Also, not all homeless people are what you call bums made bad life choices. Suggest you talk to a few and open your F'in closed mind, if it's at all possible. Iguess you pay ALL your freight for services you receive from society, right? Didn't think so.
18
Please use terms less dramatic and more relevant then "vigilantes". If these rent a cops were hanging people, you would have a point. However, all they can do is warn people and call the cops if the offender doesn't apply. That is not vigilantism. You and I both know that the only reason you want cops to handle these issues exclusively is because they simply do not have the manpower to take care of all the people blocking the sidewalk. This is your method for forcing the homeless issue in front of everybody and frankly, I find it annoying.
The right to defend and protect private property is NOT something YOU get to arbitrarily decide. Perhaps when you stop begging and start owning, you will understand the power of property rights. I take care of the sidewalk in front of my house as I am expected and am glad to do it for all the people that use it and I expect the same in return. I'll be damned if I let some bum try to take it over for his exclusive sleeping quarters.
The right to defend and protect private property is NOT something YOU get to arbitrarily decide. Perhaps when you stop begging and start owning, you will understand the power of property rights. I take care of the sidewalk in front of my house as I am expected and am glad to do it for all the people that use it and I expect the same in return. I'll be damned if I let some bum try to take it over for his exclusive sleeping quarters.
19
Actually, Logan5, your ignorance is showing again. first, sidewalks are PUBLIC property. Second, I work every day in spite of my disabilities. an yes, having police officers enforce reasonable laws would also be nice. The reason PPB does not tell 'em to move on is it is NOT against the law to sit on a sidewalk or any other public area. Maybe a few of you should acquaint yourselves with the Disorderly Conduct statute and you will see why the police don't respond. It's because, are you ready for this? THEY AREN'T BREAKING THE LAW. What a concept.
21
Dale,
By saying "I work every day in spite of my disabilities," you scream your sense of entitlement from the tallest peak.
I hope when Atlas shrugs you bounce right off.
By saying "I work every day in spite of my disabilities," you scream your sense of entitlement from the tallest peak.
I hope when Atlas shrugs you bounce right off.
22
Dale, I was specifically referring to people leaning up against other people's buildings. And when I mentioned the sidewalk in front of my house, was stressing how important it was to allow everybody to use a sidewalk as a, well, place to walk. They aren't beds and they aren't armchairs.
I think disorderly conduct applies pretty darn well. The whole point of laying on the sidewalk is to annoy people into giving up money by blocking their path. Don't have another place to lay down? Please. Forest park is crawling with nice soft ferns.
I think disorderly conduct applies pretty darn well. The whole point of laying on the sidewalk is to annoy people into giving up money by blocking their path. Don't have another place to lay down? Please. Forest park is crawling with nice soft ferns.
23
It's a $300+ fine to ride a bicycle on a downtown Portland sidewalk, but every single one of these rent-a-cops do it. They are allowed an exemption if they attend a class and pay a permit fee to ride on the sidewalk. They are required to carry this permit with them at ALL TIMES while riding a bike on the sidewalk. I've asked a few of them about it, and the response is usually, "HuH?" Perhaps this is something that the Mercury should look into.
24
Oh my god, PDX, these "Cop Impersonators" ride on the sidewalks every day, they know how to safely navigate the sidewalk. Jenny and Jane that are visting from the east coast that rented their bikes at the Ace hotel ride their bikes on the sidewalk like idiots and don't understand why people get pissed when they are wobbling around in your way. Self entitled looks ugly on people.
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