This Week in the Mercury
Wednesday, February 3, 2010
TV Let's Talk LOST!
Posted by Wm.™ Steven Humphrey on Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:40 AM
(This does not include Alison Hallett who claims to have never seen a complete episode. I've never seen a complete episode of Degrassi High, so we're even.)
Did you watch last night's season premiere of Lost? THEN LET'S TALK ABOUT IT! This will be an open thread, so bring up whatever questions/theories/complaints you like. However! If you need a conversation starter hit the jump for a few of my SPOILER-RIDDEN questions/theories/complaints!
- "Can someone point me to the closest alternate reality bar?"
1) How do you feel about this alternate reality thing? Is that really what Juliette meant when she said "it worked" before she croaked?
2) Locke as smoke monster/Jacob's ex-boyfriend (okay, maybe he's not Jacob's jilted ex-boyfriend—but maybe he is!). Was tricking the Oceanic Six to come back to the island the plan all along?
3) Can everyone who's dead, just please stay dead? (Especially Juliette!)
4) Did this episode seem a little flat to you, except for maybe the Locke parts?
4) WHERE IS THIS SHOW HEADING? Grand theories, please.
READY… SET… DISCUSS!
1
No one stays dead. Juliette'll be back. And you could immolate Sayid and he'd just come back and kick someone's ass; most likely by impaling them on a dishwasher.
Even though he died on the island, Charlie was way better off after the crash than before. (even being dead, he returned in ghost form enough times to not count as actually being dead).
There was a disappointing lack of Mr Eko in this episode. I'm really curious to see who'd win in a fight between Mr Eko and Sayid.
And you're wrong. Juliette didn't say "it worked" BEFORE she croaked. She said it after. Because dead people don't stay dead. Or ever shut up.
Even though he died on the island, Charlie was way better off after the crash than before. (even being dead, he returned in ghost form enough times to not count as actually being dead).
There was a disappointing lack of Mr Eko in this episode. I'm really curious to see who'd win in a fight between Mr Eko and Sayid.
And you're wrong. Juliette didn't say "it worked" BEFORE she croaked. She said it after. Because dead people don't stay dead. Or ever shut up.
3
That last Lost post yesterday, talking about how the revelations coming in these episodes would be like drinking from the firehose? Yeah, well... after watching those two episodes last night I'd have to say that I felt like it was more like trying to fill up a cup at a faucet that can only drip slowly. If they're going to drag it out like that for the whole season, nothing much is going to happen. They could have crammed that entire 2 episodes into the first fifteen minutes and gone on to something interesting. Lame, but sadly par for the course. I guess if Lost wasn't this retarded, most of America wouldn't like it or be able to understand what's going on.. i.e. most people are really dumb.
Also, is Jacob now reborn as Sayyid? Just a shot in the dark there. Discuss.
Also, is Jacob now reborn as Sayyid? Just a shot in the dark there. Discuss.
4
One thing that kind of concerns me is that in the end this whole thing might be just a big Judeo-Christian parable (God = Jacob, Satan = Man in black [Jacob's vengeful ex-boyfriend]) where humankind is mercilessly dicked around by a universe warring against itself. (Whew! That almost sounded smart!)
Anyway, I hope it's something less obvious than that.
Anyway, I hope it's something less obvious than that.
5
Here's a series of lectures that rather eerily explains a lot of what's going on in Lost.
http://books.google.com/books?id=b3nLtafpJ…
http://books.google.com/books?id=b3nLtafpJ…
6
Ten bucks says that the "Man in Black's" name is Esau, the vengeful brother of Jacob (in the Bibble).
7
@Wm. Steven Humphrey
You mean like Battlestar Galactica where the writers flipped us a bird and basically said ha ha we're not explaining shit cause Kara Thrace is an angel and god did all this and we don't need to explain anything now because of it.
You mean like Battlestar Galactica where the writers flipped us a bird and basically said ha ha we're not explaining shit cause Kara Thrace is an angel and god did all this and we don't need to explain anything now because of it.
8
I too have never seen an episode of Lost, but since I'm not Alison I'm supposed to comment I guess.
I have been lost before, I got lost in the grocery store when I was 3 and had my mother paged. My mom was impressed that I knew our last name, as far as she know, I always called her "Mom." I've also been lost in parking lots. Well, not so much lost, I knew I was in a parking lot, but I didn't know where the car was. And then I've lost a lot of things, for instance, last weekend I lost a razor-blade holder. I had to hold the razor-blade in my hand when I scrapped the paint off the window.
Can I banned from this thread now too?
I have been lost before, I got lost in the grocery store when I was 3 and had my mother paged. My mom was impressed that I knew our last name, as far as she know, I always called her "Mom." I've also been lost in parking lots. Well, not so much lost, I knew I was in a parking lot, but I didn't know where the car was. And then I've lost a lot of things, for instance, last weekend I lost a razor-blade holder. I had to hold the razor-blade in my hand when I scrapped the paint off the window.
Can I banned from this thread now too?
9
@Matthew D. In this scenario, I think your mom symbolizes Jacob. Ask someone who knows what they're talking about to explain that.
BY THE WAY, GUYS! As BlackedOut succinctly put it, there are some similarities between Lost and BSG. So... which is the better show? FIGHT! FIGHT!
BY THE WAY, GUYS! As BlackedOut succinctly put it, there are some similarities between Lost and BSG. So... which is the better show? FIGHT! FIGHT!
10
Lost...unless they pull some bullshit move like BSG did and just say it was god the whole time. If they do that then the Golden Girls is the greatest TV show of all time.
15
@BlackedOut They never said "it was god the whole time" at the end of BSG, and considering Ronald D. Moore is an atheist (and Caprica has continued the trend of ridiculing monotheism) I don't think that was his intention with the ending. It has been rumored that another BSG movie will be released, and I'm HOPING it'll explain Starbuck's little adventure. It did seem to parallel the "ship of light" episode from the original 1979 BSG, but I believe Moore would put his own sci-fi spin on it rather than pulling a plot directly from Glen A. Larson's heavily Mormonized story. At any rate, if you think Lost is a better show than BSG, then your opinion isn't worth two shits.
ANYWAYS - In regards to Lost, it seems like the actors who got fired for getting DUI's (Libby, Mr. Eko, and Ana Lucia - whom I affectionately refer to as "tequila-tonic") might not get invited back to reprise their roles, which kind of limits the whole dead-coming-back theme.
ANYWAYS - In regards to Lost, it seems like the actors who got fired for getting DUI's (Libby, Mr. Eko, and Ana Lucia - whom I affectionately refer to as "tequila-tonic") might not get invited back to reprise their roles, which kind of limits the whole dead-coming-back theme.
16
http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/BalWorld/…
And, yet another eerie lecture series. Anyhow - they're just exploiting the collective mythos of the "5th post Atlantean Epoch" in the Lost story line.
Jacob - Luciferian influence
Smoke Monster Man- Ahrimanic influence
The Island: microcosm of the human experiment that has been functioning since the destruction of the cultures of the Atlantean and Lemurian epochs - when the Lucfieric influences that lead to the illusion of the concept of free will in man first appear. The qualities of the Island tend to focus and concentrate the process of human evolution and allow physical manifestations of otherwise abstract spiritual concepts.
The Others: the cultural remnants of Atlantean and/or Lemurian peoples - although they've been living among and adopted enough post-atlantean humans into their society that they're rather conflicted - a bit like Spock. Even so, they tend toward having their spiritual and material "selfs" more in control and integrated. The whole Richard Alpert (aka Ram Das) is a tongue in cheek reference to this "other" quality.
Clear as mud?
And, yet another eerie lecture series. Anyhow - they're just exploiting the collective mythos of the "5th post Atlantean Epoch" in the Lost story line.
Jacob - Luciferian influence
Smoke Monster Man- Ahrimanic influence
The Island: microcosm of the human experiment that has been functioning since the destruction of the cultures of the Atlantean and Lemurian epochs - when the Lucfieric influences that lead to the illusion of the concept of free will in man first appear. The qualities of the Island tend to focus and concentrate the process of human evolution and allow physical manifestations of otherwise abstract spiritual concepts.
The Others: the cultural remnants of Atlantean and/or Lemurian peoples - although they've been living among and adopted enough post-atlantean humans into their society that they're rather conflicted - a bit like Spock. Even so, they tend toward having their spiritual and material "selfs" more in control and integrated. The whole Richard Alpert (aka Ram Das) is a tongue in cheek reference to this "other" quality.
Clear as mud?
18
Jacob is the Luciferian influence on man - the tendency toward the spiritual/ethereal/mental whatever disconnected from the material being. He's also the cause of the human perception of Freedom/free will whatever (remember the story about the fruit on the tree of knowledge?)
Smoke monster guy is the opposite - Ahrimanic influence, overwhelming attachment to the material and tendency to bury/drive down any ethereal aspects of being.
In other words - they're both different flavors of bad influence - but okay when they're in balance. Neither of them are inherently good.
Smoke monster guy is the opposite - Ahrimanic influence, overwhelming attachment to the material and tendency to bury/drive down any ethereal aspects of being.
In other words - they're both different flavors of bad influence - but okay when they're in balance. Neither of them are inherently good.
19
Come to think of it, has any show in the lost/bsg/x-files genre come to a natural conclusion, and not sucked in the end?
20
Here are my thoughts:
1. Doing awkward shit like sending Charlie to jail to keep already dead (but now re-alive) characters out of the show just isn't going to work. Jack walked all the way to the back of the plane. Where the hell was Echo? Libby? Anna Lucia? They should just be apart of the show again, no questions asked. Where was Shannon when Locke was talking to Boone?
2. The encounter with Jack and Desmond makes me wonder if Desmond was actually on the plane. In fact, I wonder if it will be his mission throughout the season to restore the timeline, and his appearance is just one of many examples of him popping in and out. What was striking about their encounter was when they finally got the hatch open in Season 2, and Jack saw him, they immediately recognized each other from the end of Season 1, when they were running stairs together. There was no recognition this time. Also, in a flight from Australia to LAX, why was he only taking his seat next to Jack half way through? I bet that moment will prove critical.
3. How did Hugo win the lotto without the numbers? What was he doing in Australia if not to follow up with the numbers guy.
5. If Locke is the dark force, which of the Losties will emerge as the light? Claire. Actually... now that I think about it.
6. Why does the new ninja leader of the temple come across as some rediculus B-movie villain?
1. Doing awkward shit like sending Charlie to jail to keep already dead (but now re-alive) characters out of the show just isn't going to work. Jack walked all the way to the back of the plane. Where the hell was Echo? Libby? Anna Lucia? They should just be apart of the show again, no questions asked. Where was Shannon when Locke was talking to Boone?
2. The encounter with Jack and Desmond makes me wonder if Desmond was actually on the plane. In fact, I wonder if it will be his mission throughout the season to restore the timeline, and his appearance is just one of many examples of him popping in and out. What was striking about their encounter was when they finally got the hatch open in Season 2, and Jack saw him, they immediately recognized each other from the end of Season 1, when they were running stairs together. There was no recognition this time. Also, in a flight from Australia to LAX, why was he only taking his seat next to Jack half way through? I bet that moment will prove critical.
3. How did Hugo win the lotto without the numbers? What was he doing in Australia if not to follow up with the numbers guy.
5. If Locke is the dark force, which of the Losties will emerge as the light? Claire. Actually... now that I think about it.
6. Why does the new ninja leader of the temple come across as some rediculus B-movie villain?
21
UGH with people still fucking complaining about BSG over a year after the shit ended.
The "A Wizard Did it" complaint rings really false to me for more than a few reasons - primarily, that particular wizard was doing things since season 1, with no possible scientific or grounded explanation. Zero. Oracles? Visions? Shared dreams? So in the end, when Angels show up and God makes himself seen, suddenly shit is out of bounds? That shit was folded into the show gradually, and the spiritual element was always present. If you bought into Laura getting cured by magic cylon baby blood, if you bought the robot standing in a circle and seeing hooded robots, it's less a leap and more a skip (or trip, if you thought the idea was sound but the execution was lacking, which I can't argue really) to buy the idea that God has been running a fucked up experiment on humanity over and over again because he's a bored, possibly INSANE celestial being. There was plenty explained in BSG's final 10 episodes. Unfortunately, they explained most of it with 3 episodes left to go.
@Baltar666 - the movie being proposed will have nothing to do with Moore's story, and will likely never get off the ground.
I don't think Jacob is in Sayid. I'm thinking back to the last time a body was taken to that temple: Ben. Whatever popped Sayid upright is something closer to a Richard or a Ben than a Jacob.
@elevatorbeat - your no. 6 is the first thing I noticed: He looked like he was wearing leftover ninja costumes from Mortal Kombat.
Desmond was probably just physically bouncing through time and space. What a weird sentence to type out so casually. Shannon stayed on the island because circumstances aren't EXACTLY the same in this alternate universe where the island is a relic at the bottom of the ocean for the last 30 years. They had Boone flat out state "She didn't wanna be rescued" in this reality. Things are slightly, but decidedly different. There's nothing that says Eko won't show up later, or Ana Lucia (ugh) or any of that. It's only the first 2 hours of an 18-20 hour final season. Claire wasn't seen until the cab, she might as well have not been in the episode. If they waited until the last 3 seconds to show her, it stands to reason there are other characters they're saving for later in the run.
More...
The "A Wizard Did it" complaint rings really false to me for more than a few reasons - primarily, that particular wizard was doing things since season 1, with no possible scientific or grounded explanation. Zero. Oracles? Visions? Shared dreams? So in the end, when Angels show up and God makes himself seen, suddenly shit is out of bounds? That shit was folded into the show gradually, and the spiritual element was always present. If you bought into Laura getting cured by magic cylon baby blood, if you bought the robot standing in a circle and seeing hooded robots, it's less a leap and more a skip (or trip, if you thought the idea was sound but the execution was lacking, which I can't argue really) to buy the idea that God has been running a fucked up experiment on humanity over and over again because he's a bored, possibly INSANE celestial being. There was plenty explained in BSG's final 10 episodes. Unfortunately, they explained most of it with 3 episodes left to go.
@Baltar666 - the movie being proposed will have nothing to do with Moore's story, and will likely never get off the ground.
I don't think Jacob is in Sayid. I'm thinking back to the last time a body was taken to that temple: Ben. Whatever popped Sayid upright is something closer to a Richard or a Ben than a Jacob.
@elevatorbeat - your no. 6 is the first thing I noticed: He looked like he was wearing leftover ninja costumes from Mortal Kombat.
Desmond was probably just physically bouncing through time and space. What a weird sentence to type out so casually. Shannon stayed on the island because circumstances aren't EXACTLY the same in this alternate universe where the island is a relic at the bottom of the ocean for the last 30 years. They had Boone flat out state "She didn't wanna be rescued" in this reality. Things are slightly, but decidedly different. There's nothing that says Eko won't show up later, or Ana Lucia (ugh) or any of that. It's only the first 2 hours of an 18-20 hour final season. Claire wasn't seen until the cab, she might as well have not been in the episode. If they waited until the last 3 seconds to show her, it stands to reason there are other characters they're saving for later in the run.
22
Did anyone else catch the Jimmy Kimmel show later that night? and happen to hear one of the writers of Lost, as a guest, say "the Island is a spaceship" in passing?
23
1. Doing awkward shit like sending Charlie to jail to keep already dead (but now re-alive) characters out of the show just isn't going to work. Jack walked all the way to the back of the plane. Where the hell was Echo? Libby? Anna Lucia? They should just be apart of the show again, no questions asked. Where was Shannon when Locke was talking to Boone?
There are a couple of things to lead us to believe that peoples lives up to the point of Flight 815 are not the same as they were when we first met them. The best example of this is Hurley's conversation with Arzt on the plane. We found out that he was in Sydney to open his new Australian branches of Mr. Clucks. When Sawyer makes a comment that he shouldn't tell people about being a lottery winner, because people will take advantage of him Hurley replies "Nah man, that won't happen, I'm the luckiest guy in the world". Which is definitely a different path for Hurley than we knew before.
And with Boone, he just says he went to get his sister, and she didn't want to be saved from her bad relationship. So presumably, in this A-bomb-reset alternate reality, Shannon didn't get on the plane.
Generally, I agree that this premiere was short on the promised "revelations", although the whole "man in black possessing Locke and getting to see him turn into the smoke monster" bit was pretty darn cool. Lost writers seem to do excellent finales, and so-so premieres. If they can lead up to a series finale as good as their season finales, I'll be a happy Lostie.
There are a couple of things to lead us to believe that peoples lives up to the point of Flight 815 are not the same as they were when we first met them. The best example of this is Hurley's conversation with Arzt on the plane. We found out that he was in Sydney to open his new Australian branches of Mr. Clucks. When Sawyer makes a comment that he shouldn't tell people about being a lottery winner, because people will take advantage of him Hurley replies "Nah man, that won't happen, I'm the luckiest guy in the world". Which is definitely a different path for Hurley than we knew before.
And with Boone, he just says he went to get his sister, and she didn't want to be saved from her bad relationship. So presumably, in this A-bomb-reset alternate reality, Shannon didn't get on the plane.
Generally, I agree that this premiere was short on the promised "revelations", although the whole "man in black possessing Locke and getting to see him turn into the smoke monster" bit was pretty darn cool. Lost writers seem to do excellent finales, and so-so premieres. If they can lead up to a series finale as good as their season finales, I'll be a happy Lostie.
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