This Week in the Mercury
Thursday, February 4, 2010
Media / News / Cops "Basically, we shot an unarmed black guy running away from us."
Posted by Matt Davis on Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:13 PM
Says Scott Westerman, head of the Portland Police Association, in the Oregonian. Dude just HIRED a public relations firm, too.
Having said that, Westerman also said something remarkably smart:
"No one should ever forget this," Westerman said: "The citizens of Portland and the state of Oregon are the ones who give police officers the legal right to use force. If there is a disconnect, the police need to educate the citizens ... or citizens need to educate the police."
1
You know if there were more black people in Portland, there would be some serious riots going on right now. Cops shoot a 14 year old girl with a bean bag and now this. If this happened in LA, the city would be in ruins.
2
"If there is a disconnect, the police need to educate the citizens ... or citizens need to educate the police."
We tried to educate them. And then they rioted, armed and in uniform, no less. They do seem to support the education to be the other way though, while they are aiming guns at us and pelting us with bean bags.
We tried to educate them. And then they rioted, armed and in uniform, no less. They do seem to support the education to be the other way though, while they are aiming guns at us and pelting us with bean bags.
7
I don't think so. Basically what you're saying is that if there were more black people in Portland there would be a riot and a lot of vandalism. This suggests that black people aren't rational and have issues with impulse control. Just admit you're racist.
8
I love how you have some much insight into who I am and my feeling are towards races through a post on a blog. You're assuming and jumping to conclusions. Look at your sentence. You use the word "suggests", I didn't "suggest" anything. If anything, you are the one suggesting, I didn't say anything about black people being violent or lacking self control. Where did you get that from? Who is the racist now?
Please tell me more about myself that I don't know, because you seem to have crystal ball.
Please tell me more about myself that I don't know, because you seem to have crystal ball.
9
You sure showed me....Racist. Exactly as I said before. You are SUGGESTING that if there were more black people in Portland they would be rioting and the city would be in ruins. A riot, if you didn't know, is when unruly people engage in public acts of violence. Unruly means they lack restraint. It's okay to admit I'm right. Your first statement is racist, and so are you.
10
I know what a riot is, there is no confusion about that. Also you don't have to, as you put it, be an "unruly" person to participate in a riot. That sounds like stereotyping to me.
You seem very confident that you know exactly who I am and what I believe, so please tell me this: How am I racist against myself? That is the part I don't understand, I mean I've seen that one skit with Dave Chappelle, but how do I hate black people and yet am one at the same time? Wouldn't have I committed suicide by now? Explain that to me, because you seem to have all the answers.
You seem very confident that you know exactly who I am and what I believe, so please tell me this: How am I racist against myself? That is the part I don't understand, I mean I've seen that one skit with Dave Chappelle, but how do I hate black people and yet am one at the same time? Wouldn't have I committed suicide by now? Explain that to me, because you seem to have all the answers.
12
It was a racist comment by Isewise; you clearly implied that black people are prone to riot.
And the beanbag for the "14 year old girl" was completely justified. It was the right response. She was huge, violent, and resisting - that's WHY they carry beanbag guns. All she got was a bruise on her thigh - if they had to wrestle her down she might have had a broken arm or rib.
And the beanbag for the "14 year old girl" was completely justified. It was the right response. She was huge, violent, and resisting - that's WHY they carry beanbag guns. All she got was a bruise on her thigh - if they had to wrestle her down she might have had a broken arm or rib.
13
@Reymont
The "14 year old girl" was a 14 year old girl. My sister and housemate both work in the mental health field with children that age who have behavior issues stemming from abuse, neglect, or just plain old acting out. They're just as violent as that 14 year old girl was and in many cases just as big. My 5'4" 150lbs sister handles girls that size all the time without a beanbag gun.
Lets say those cops worked at the Parry Center as employees and handled that 14 year old girl the way they did. You know what would happen? They would be fired and charged with child abuse. That's a simple fact.
If 3 grown ass men can't handle a 14 year old girl without even having to follow state laws like our mental health employees do and have to resort to shooting a pinned down girl with a bean bag gun at point blank range they probably don't deserve to be out on the street.
The "14 year old girl" was a 14 year old girl. My sister and housemate both work in the mental health field with children that age who have behavior issues stemming from abuse, neglect, or just plain old acting out. They're just as violent as that 14 year old girl was and in many cases just as big. My 5'4" 150lbs sister handles girls that size all the time without a beanbag gun.
Lets say those cops worked at the Parry Center as employees and handled that 14 year old girl the way they did. You know what would happen? They would be fired and charged with child abuse. That's a simple fact.
If 3 grown ass men can't handle a 14 year old girl without even having to follow state laws like our mental health employees do and have to resort to shooting a pinned down girl with a bean bag gun at point blank range they probably don't deserve to be out on the street.
15
@ Isewise.....any participant in a "riot" IS being unruly and violent. It's a riot not a protest.
So maybe you should have said if there were more black ppl in this city, a major protest would break out over this incident. That way you're not tearing down the rationale quantity of your own race.
So maybe you should have said if there were more black ppl in this city, a major protest would break out over this incident. That way you're not tearing down the rationale quantity of your own race.
16
Hmmm. It seems more people here agree with me. Even if you are black, that doesn't mean you're not racist. You're saying there would be a riot based on two separate incidents where white officers had no choice but to use force against black citizens. So would black people riot if the two officers were black? Probably not. So the riot is based on the race of the officer. Either way you're still saying that black people will resort to criminal behavior when upset. Criminal behavior is unruly. So, you're still a racist.
On another note, BlackedOut is clueless. You can't compare an incident that happens on a MAX platform (an uncontrolled environtment) with something that happens T the Parry Center (a secure facility). The staff at the Parry Center doesn't have to contend with the presence of guns, knives, etc. And just so you know, the staff at the Parry Center sometimes handles the "guests" there by pretty much beating the shit out of them cause they don't have to tools the police do.
On another note, BlackedOut is clueless. You can't compare an incident that happens on a MAX platform (an uncontrolled environtment) with something that happens T the Parry Center (a secure facility). The staff at the Parry Center doesn't have to contend with the presence of guns, knives, etc. And just so you know, the staff at the Parry Center sometimes handles the "guests" there by pretty much beating the shit out of them cause they don't have to tools the police do.
18
Ok, since I started this thread I'm going to end it as well.
Concerning my initial comment:
I feel that the 2 events, the MAX platform and the Campbell shooting, together with such a small amount of time between them, would have upset a larger black community in much more vocal way from what we are seeing here, or not seeing, here in Portland now. The MAX platform video, to me, seemed almost Rodney King like. Now, would it have actually lead to riots? Maybe. I could be wrong, I could be right. Perhaps as Chorizogrande pointed out, maybe I should have said "protests" instead of "riots".
I retain that my comment is not racist, especially since I am part of that race. As Matthew D pointed out, just because you say something critical does not make you racist.
I think a lesson DeportMattDavis, and anybody else reading this, needs to learn is to not be so quick to accuse people of being racist or whatever the label is, especially when so little is known about the person making a comment. The number of times DeportMattDavis called me a racist is somewhat scary to me. On the other hand, the word "racist" is thrown around so much now, look at this thread, it has lost almost all meaning, I would argue.
So thats it. I'm done with topic. Now, someone break out an acoustic guitar so we can sing "Kumbaya" and move on.
Concerning my initial comment:
I feel that the 2 events, the MAX platform and the Campbell shooting, together with such a small amount of time between them, would have upset a larger black community in much more vocal way from what we are seeing here, or not seeing, here in Portland now. The MAX platform video, to me, seemed almost Rodney King like. Now, would it have actually lead to riots? Maybe. I could be wrong, I could be right. Perhaps as Chorizogrande pointed out, maybe I should have said "protests" instead of "riots".
I retain that my comment is not racist, especially since I am part of that race. As Matthew D pointed out, just because you say something critical does not make you racist.
I think a lesson DeportMattDavis, and anybody else reading this, needs to learn is to not be so quick to accuse people of being racist or whatever the label is, especially when so little is known about the person making a comment. The number of times DeportMattDavis called me a racist is somewhat scary to me. On the other hand, the word "racist" is thrown around so much now, look at this thread, it has lost almost all meaning, I would argue.
So thats it. I'm done with topic. Now, someone break out an acoustic guitar so we can sing "Kumbaya" and move on.
19
"You can't compare an incident that happens on a MAX platform (an uncontrolled environtment) with something that happens T the Parry Center (a secure facility)."
Actually you can. Those kids are pretty ingenious with the weapons they come up with. A couple of years ago at another facility a staff member had a finger taken off by a kid. Emergency room visits by staff is a pretty common occurrence of these places.
"And just so you know, the staff at the Parry Center sometimes handles the "guests" there by pretty much beating the shit out of them cause they don't have to tools the police do."
And you know what happens when they get caught for doing that? The get fired and charged with child abuse. So who is the clueless one Reymont? Me who knows 3 grown ass men should be able to handle a 14 year old pinned down girl without shooting her at point blank range with a bean bag gun or you who seems to think that the Police get a pass because they have a tough job sometimes?
Actually you can. Those kids are pretty ingenious with the weapons they come up with. A couple of years ago at another facility a staff member had a finger taken off by a kid. Emergency room visits by staff is a pretty common occurrence of these places.
"And just so you know, the staff at the Parry Center sometimes handles the "guests" there by pretty much beating the shit out of them cause they don't have to tools the police do."
And you know what happens when they get caught for doing that? The get fired and charged with child abuse. So who is the clueless one Reymont? Me who knows 3 grown ass men should be able to handle a 14 year old pinned down girl without shooting her at point blank range with a bean bag gun or you who seems to think that the Police get a pass because they have a tough job sometimes?
20
@ Reymont
You should study your history. But it is clearly obvious that you haven't. So here's a little history lesson for you, just in case you are new to the United States.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/174114
Just read the foot note 1 on the opening page:
"The black population size strongly predicted riot activity at the local level is not particular surprising or theoretically interesting finding."
In laymans terms given the correct amount of a black population, rioting is likely.
One more for good measure
http://law.jrank.org/pages/1969/Riots-Beha…
Key take away quote "He found that the only significant predictor of riot frequency and severity among cities was the size of a city's black population"
So now that I have done my research Reymont I would appreciate you providing information that shows I am incorrect that is if you can.
You should study your history. But it is clearly obvious that you haven't. So here's a little history lesson for you, just in case you are new to the United States.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/174114
Just read the foot note 1 on the opening page:
"The black population size strongly predicted riot activity at the local level is not particular surprising or theoretically interesting finding."
In laymans terms given the correct amount of a black population, rioting is likely.
One more for good measure
http://law.jrank.org/pages/1969/Riots-Beha…
Key take away quote "He found that the only significant predictor of riot frequency and severity among cities was the size of a city's black population"
So now that I have done my research Reymont I would appreciate you providing information that shows I am incorrect that is if you can.
21
@Isewise - Good wrap up, thanks. You make good points. I guess I was saying that statement itself was racist - of course I don't know anything about you personally. It's racist if I say white people smell like paste, even if I'm white, right? Maybe that was a silly thing for me to point out.
@reubadoob - Too long, did not read. But even if US riots have been primarily black-led historically, that's blaming a symptom and not the root cause. Obviously, the country's been very racist against black people for a long time. If gingers or mormons had that history, his research would have shown that hair color or religion were the best indicators of riot potential. In neither case would he have uncovered any truth about what causes a riot.
@reubadoob - Too long, did not read. But even if US riots have been primarily black-led historically, that's blaming a symptom and not the root cause. Obviously, the country's been very racist against black people for a long time. If gingers or mormons had that history, his research would have shown that hair color or religion were the best indicators of riot potential. In neither case would he have uncovered any truth about what causes a riot.
22
"not be so quick to accuse people of being racist"
Remember that if you're ever stopped by the police. You may have actually done something wrong.
Isewise, I don't disagree with your original statement. I actually just wanted to see what would
happen if I called you out. I don't really buy in to
politically correct BS.
Reubadood - Interesting facts. If this was a racial profiling discussion you'd be told those facts don't
mean anything and you'd be labeled a racist. That
goes along with the fact that black people commit more crime per capita than any other race. Interesting how it's okay to use those facts when it
supports your point of view, but in another discussion it wouldn't be okay.
Anyway, I'm done. That was fun.
Remember that if you're ever stopped by the police. You may have actually done something wrong.
Isewise, I don't disagree with your original statement. I actually just wanted to see what would
happen if I called you out. I don't really buy in to
politically correct BS.
Reubadood - Interesting facts. If this was a racial profiling discussion you'd be told those facts don't
mean anything and you'd be labeled a racist. That
goes along with the fact that black people commit more crime per capita than any other race. Interesting how it's okay to use those facts when it
supports your point of view, but in another discussion it wouldn't be okay.
Anyway, I'm done. That was fun.
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