This Week in the Mercury
Thursday, February 25, 2010
Food / Poll How Do Our Service Industry Workers Compare to Other Cities?
Posted by Wm.™ Steven Humphrey on Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:14 AM
You provided some verrrry interesting comments yesterday on Patrick's post "Hot Coffee Fight! It Scalds!" (in which Seattle coffee is compared to Portland.) HOWEVER! You also made some very pointed observations on how Portland's service industry workers compare to Seattle's and other cities. Here are a few examples:
- From "Rich Bachelor"
- From "Blabby"
- From "tk"
I've heard similar rumblings lately from other people, but do you agree? LET'S FIND OUT!
HOW DO PORTLAND SERVICE INDUSTRY WORKERS COMPARE TO THOSE IN OTHER CITIES?
Keep checking back for results, and be sure to continue this fascinating conversation in our comments below! YOUR OPINION IS SEXY.
1
The really amazing thing is that servers in Oregon get full minimum wage on top of tips. Every other place I've lived (midwest, southwest), they've been stuck at $2.13 / hr or close to it:
http://www.dol.gov/wb/faq26.htm
So when I get bad service, I don't feel bad about shorting the tip. Wages in OR aren't as dire as they could be, and maybe that's why a shitty server thinks he or she can cop a 'tude.
http://www.dol.gov/wb/faq26.htm
So when I get bad service, I don't feel bad about shorting the tip. Wages in OR aren't as dire as they could be, and maybe that's why a shitty server thinks he or she can cop a 'tude.
2
Let me jump in with my perspective, as someone born in Portland, raised in the burbs, now living in the city.
The homegrown shops are great, but it always seems to be the worst, hipster-douchebag-asshole servers that are talking about how they moved here from LA for the "music scene" or because it's "such a green city."
These folks seem to be the same crowd that are destroying my home in a variety of other ways....being dicks when I order a martini is just another reason for Oregon to start enacting some serious and courageous protectionist policies.
The homegrown shops are great, but it always seems to be the worst, hipster-douchebag-asshole servers that are talking about how they moved here from LA for the "music scene" or because it's "such a green city."
These folks seem to be the same crowd that are destroying my home in a variety of other ways....being dicks when I order a martini is just another reason for Oregon to start enacting some serious and courageous protectionist policies.
3
When I waited tables in Washington years ago we were paid minimum wage ($4.85?). The thing is, we were still taxed on our gross sales regardless of whether or not we were actually tipped.
The restaurant would withhold money from our paychecks to cover the taxes on our tips, hence the money you made from the restaurant every two weeks was hardly significant. One year I didn't have them withholding anything based on my tips and I owed a few thousand dollars to the IRS. Good ole Form 4137 struck again!
All of my income came from tips and what was left over on the paycheck was beer money. This also doesn't cover the fact that you were expected to tip out the bartender, busboy, kitchen, hostesses, first aid kit, can opener, air conditioner, and the Hobart mixer at the end of each night.
The restaurant would withhold money from our paychecks to cover the taxes on our tips, hence the money you made from the restaurant every two weeks was hardly significant. One year I didn't have them withholding anything based on my tips and I owed a few thousand dollars to the IRS. Good ole Form 4137 struck again!
All of my income came from tips and what was left over on the paycheck was beer money. This also doesn't cover the fact that you were expected to tip out the bartender, busboy, kitchen, hostesses, first aid kit, can opener, air conditioner, and the Hobart mixer at the end of each night.
4
@Chunty
I don't understand. Full minimum wage is still below the poverty line. It's not like these servers are sitting on piles of gold while they take their smoke breaks.
I don't understand. Full minimum wage is still below the poverty line. It's not like these servers are sitting on piles of gold while they take their smoke breaks.
5
I would remind you, Chunty, that even if a server recieves no tips at all, the state will assume 8% of their total sales was tips, and tax said server accordingly. So when you leave no tip whatsoever, you're kind of leaving your server in a position where they're paying to work.
Also, like all matters of opinion, let me remind everyone: at no time did I say that All Portland servers are unfriendly. So later on when the questions get asked, anyone who says I did can go fuck themselves. Awright.
Also, like all matters of opinion, let me remind everyone: at no time did I say that All Portland servers are unfriendly. So later on when the questions get asked, anyone who says I did can go fuck themselves. Awright.
6
@kiala Obviously you haven't seen the breakroom at Portland City Grill. It's actually made of piles of gold.
7
I don't really frequent cafes or restaurants very often, so I am probably not the best qualified to comment on this sort of thing.
That said, with respect to cafes, the self-important schmucks banging away on laptops are a far bigger turn-off for me than any encounter I've had with a server.
That said, with respect to cafes, the self-important schmucks banging away on laptops are a far bigger turn-off for me than any encounter I've had with a server.
8
Like RB, I also did not claim that all servers are uppity.
This has been chewed over a few times at Blogtown, but I simply resist the idea that tips are automatic. They must be earned, and the bar is set pretty low. I also resist the idea that the average serving job is supposed to give someone a cozy middle-class lifestyle. That's not the role these jobs play in the great economic hierarchy.
This has been chewed over a few times at Blogtown, but I simply resist the idea that tips are automatic. They must be earned, and the bar is set pretty low. I also resist the idea that the average serving job is supposed to give someone a cozy middle-class lifestyle. That's not the role these jobs play in the great economic hierarchy.
9
I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's fucked up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government fucks in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college bullshit I got two words for that: learn to fuckin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuckin' surprise
10
I don't get too upset about shitty, uppity service because I speak with my tip. It starts at 20% and goes up or down from there depending on how I'm treated.
I've even pulled the infamous $.01 tip if they were real assholes. Shitty service doesn't hurt me it just hurts the server.
I've even pulled the infamous $.01 tip if they were real assholes. Shitty service doesn't hurt me it just hurts the server.
11
I'm not saying the Oregon minimum wage is a living wage by any means, but Portland, in my experience, has the worst service in restaurants. I don't go out to eat all that often, but unless it's one of these places where I know the owners/servers, the service is outrageously bad. I don't know that a $0 tip is ever appropriate, but that's my own deal. Whether it's the hipster douchebags or whomever, the service is consistently terrible. No sense of urgency, absolute no idea how to anticipate needs or expectations, and no understanding of how to remedy a problem. I would've thought the employers market we're in would weed out the shitty servers, but sadly, no. It's hard to find fault with the argument that tips are earned, except that I feel guilty leaving less than 15%, but like I said, that's just me. I will, however, give as much as I can to someone who does a great job. Unfortunately, that rarely, if ever, happens.
If you wait tables, if you take care of me, I'll take care of you. I think most people will. At the very least, be courteous, and speak clearly. That sad bastard mumbling might work on whomever you're trying to bed, but not on your tables.
If you wait tables, if you take care of me, I'll take care of you. I think most people will. At the very least, be courteous, and speak clearly. That sad bastard mumbling might work on whomever you're trying to bed, but not on your tables.
12
Everyone's way too fucking sensitive in this debate. Said sensitivity, I believe, is uniquely Portland. I've served at coffee shops, counter service and sit-down restaurants. I've patronized them all across the board. I know, so have you. Great.
Servers: yes, upon entering a restaurant, a disproportionate number of customers turn into entitled jack asses (or are inherently so). Force-tolerate it because it's your job. Punch numbered keys in a back room if you can't handle working with the public. Realize that the friendlier you are, the greater chance you'll receive a nice tip. Yes, at times your folksiness will be met with no or little reward. That's too bad. Let it go. Over time, the nicer and more attentive you are, the more you'll get paid. Realize, though, that customers are not obligated to pay for you to rent your practice or studio space. Your job can be frustrating at times, but it's not a meatgrinder. It is not THAT hard. People inexplicably pay you an extra dollar to throw a slice of pizza on a plate or spin a dial and pour hot water in a cup, for fuck's sake. Take pride in your other endeavors by not taking out your frustrations on those you assume don't meet your artistic match. Fact is, a lot of people you serve have interesting things going on in or outside their job, too, and probably do your same kind of work (or very recently have).
Customer: oh, dear customers. Stop linking the success of your outing entirely to the person with whom you exchance only a few seconds of conversation. Most servers are indifferent; some are great, friendly and helpful. And yes, a scant few are pricks. Know the difference. Be mad and cause a stink if you get a prick. It's your right. BUT, don't let indifferent servers ruin your experience (or "ruin your town"). Just tip them less. It's that easy. You're hopefully there to hang with friends/a lover/an escort/a co-worker/your study materials/ et. al. first and foremost, right?
Customers, you are also part of a system. Try being pleasant. Don't talk down. Ask, don't demand. Learn when to get over yourself. For example, it's Friday night. It's the busiest night of the week for the place you're patronizing. You arrive at 6:30pm. Don't be mad when you may have to wait up to 40 minutes for a table. Establishments don't plan their night around the 7:30 movie you want to make.
And finally, to whiney coffee shop patrons--Why are you bitching about other people using their laptops? Do you realize the age in which you live? Who gives a fuck! Even if you get the sense they desperately want you to care about their latest magnum opus or work of artistic genius (how, I'm not sure but nevertheless), aren't YOU there for a purpose? Are you sure you're not projecting a bit? Sit, drink, read, talk, do whatever you're there for and ignore those around you. Everyone cares not for each other's activity. Do your thing or stay home. This is a Portland coffee shop, after all. Know the players involved (the barista and patron typology) and what you're walking into.
More...
Servers: yes, upon entering a restaurant, a disproportionate number of customers turn into entitled jack asses (or are inherently so). Force-tolerate it because it's your job. Punch numbered keys in a back room if you can't handle working with the public. Realize that the friendlier you are, the greater chance you'll receive a nice tip. Yes, at times your folksiness will be met with no or little reward. That's too bad. Let it go. Over time, the nicer and more attentive you are, the more you'll get paid. Realize, though, that customers are not obligated to pay for you to rent your practice or studio space. Your job can be frustrating at times, but it's not a meatgrinder. It is not THAT hard. People inexplicably pay you an extra dollar to throw a slice of pizza on a plate or spin a dial and pour hot water in a cup, for fuck's sake. Take pride in your other endeavors by not taking out your frustrations on those you assume don't meet your artistic match. Fact is, a lot of people you serve have interesting things going on in or outside their job, too, and probably do your same kind of work (or very recently have).
Customer: oh, dear customers. Stop linking the success of your outing entirely to the person with whom you exchance only a few seconds of conversation. Most servers are indifferent; some are great, friendly and helpful. And yes, a scant few are pricks. Know the difference. Be mad and cause a stink if you get a prick. It's your right. BUT, don't let indifferent servers ruin your experience (or "ruin your town"). Just tip them less. It's that easy. You're hopefully there to hang with friends/a lover/an escort/a co-worker/your study materials/ et. al. first and foremost, right?
Customers, you are also part of a system. Try being pleasant. Don't talk down. Ask, don't demand. Learn when to get over yourself. For example, it's Friday night. It's the busiest night of the week for the place you're patronizing. You arrive at 6:30pm. Don't be mad when you may have to wait up to 40 minutes for a table. Establishments don't plan their night around the 7:30 movie you want to make.
And finally, to whiney coffee shop patrons--Why are you bitching about other people using their laptops? Do you realize the age in which you live? Who gives a fuck! Even if you get the sense they desperately want you to care about their latest magnum opus or work of artistic genius (how, I'm not sure but nevertheless), aren't YOU there for a purpose? Are you sure you're not projecting a bit? Sit, drink, read, talk, do whatever you're there for and ignore those around you. Everyone cares not for each other's activity. Do your thing or stay home. This is a Portland coffee shop, after all. Know the players involved (the barista and patron typology) and what you're walking into.
13
I totally see your point and agree with it, TSW, which is why I'm NOT a coffee shop patron. (guilty of the whiny part, though!)
As according to your suggestion, I would MUCH, MUCH (much) rather stay home and drink coffee than hang out at a cafe.
I'm just saying that has as much or more to do with the clientele than any issues with the attitude of the servers.......
As according to your suggestion, I would MUCH, MUCH (much) rather stay home and drink coffee than hang out at a cafe.
I'm just saying that has as much or more to do with the clientele than any issues with the attitude of the servers.......
14
I have found that tips don't send much of a signal in this town. I've begun emailing the restaurant management when I have a particularly bad or particularly good experience with a server.
15
I agree with Pork Chop. E-mailing the management almost always results in some kind of answer, but not always an improvement.
16
I'm a former server and bartender with about 25 years of experience. I have a lot of respect for good SI people. I tip any server who at least tries to do a good job and isn't a dick to me. But I have no problem with leaving a tiny tip or none at all if service truly sucks and/or the attitude thing.
Telling the management about sucky servers isn't a bad idea, but in this town, the owners and managers that hire "hipsters" with too much 'tude are, often, hipsters with too much 'tude. I f*cking hate that.
Telling the management about sucky servers isn't a bad idea, but in this town, the owners and managers that hire "hipsters" with too much 'tude are, often, hipsters with too much 'tude. I f*cking hate that.
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