Wednesday, April 7, 2010
News PDX Gets More Red Light & Speed Cameras
Posted by Matt Davis on Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 10:48 AM
Council has voted this morning to fund two contracts with ACS State and Local Solutions, worth $7.5million over the next five years, to fit red light and speed cameras in Portland.
But the ACLU is concerned about ACS using the information for scary business. "As part of any government contract where a third party has access to third party records, there's always a danger of mission creep," said Andrea Meyer with the ACLU of Oregon.
"ACS is owned by IBM and has significant work that it does around the country, including finding people who are delinquent on their student loan payments," said Meyer. "There should be a specific clause in the contract that forbids them from using the information they are using for other causes."
City Commissioners Dan Saltzman and Nick Fish said they had concerns about that, too.
"We're owned by the Xerox corporation, not IBM," said Vincent Kingsley Park, from ACS. "Once we use the information to issue the citation, the database is clear. Once we have issued the citation then the information is deleted."
Then, Saltzman wondered whether council could use the photos from the cameras for other citations.
"This council is big on two-fers," he said. "So if the speed camera showed that someone was texting, or on a cell phone, could we also cite them for that, too?"
No.
"So we'd have to go to the legislature for that?" Saltzman asked. Yes.
In the audience, Meyer shook her head.
1
said Vincent Kingsley Park, from ACS. "Once we use the information to issue the citation, the database is clear. Once we have issued the citation then the information is deleted."
Good. Then you should have zero problem with putting literature disallowing you from using the data for anything else in the contract. AMIRITE?
Good. Then you should have zero problem with putting literature disallowing you from using the data for anything else in the contract. AMIRITE?
3
Lots of new tickets to close them budget holes. Maybe they could put parking meters in people's driveways. Think of the revenue!
4
"This council is big on two-fers," he said. "So if the speed camera showed that someone was texting, or on a cell phone, could we also cite them for that, too?"
Figures Saltzman is a double dipper.
Figures Saltzman is a double dipper.
6
Regardless of the revenue this may or may not create; do red light and speed cameras have any demonstrable affect on improving the public safety?
7
I don't think even a secondary purpose of these things is "enhancing public safety", Graham. I've always looked at them as cost savings first (one less cop getting paid for holding a radar gun and one more cop actually busting real criminals) and municipal revenue generators second.
8
Some cities have discontinued the use of red light cameras because the incidence of rear-end crashes (quit laughing Humpy) rose very abruptly, cause many injuries.
9
The discussion on these cameras always boils down to the money which is unfortunate. my experience with them is that they drastically alter driver behavior. people abandon the i can get through that light attitude and reduce their speed because they do not want the ticket. It is no different than if there were a cop sitting at the light, except we don't have to pay a cop to sit on the busiest corners anymore.
10
It sounds like the management of the system has taken reasonable steps to ensure that the information is not used for the wrong purpose. Most systems take a photo of the rear license plate and not the front of the car or the driver. As for use of cell phones or texting, there is so much distracted driving going on that it would be fine with me if there was a camera method adopted to ticket cell phone use or texting while driving.
11
I am gald that they are using these cameras, though perhaps they should have used some other company that won't create such uneasiness or they at least need to have an iron-clad contract to prevent abuse.
12
I like the fact that they are using the cameras for what they are intended for...speeders and red light runners. If you are texting while driving, although just as dangerous, should be up to the discretion of a police officer to ticket. Bottom line, people just need to pay attention to driving.
13
Wait 'til you all find out what percentage of the ticket revenue goes to the company installing and maintaining the cameras versus how much goes into the city's coffers.
14
I think mission creep is an excuse for not wanting the government to enforce traffic laws, what could be wrong with enforcing the traffic laws we have, they exist to keep us safe - and revenue, either from cops on the street to cameras, are just a way to force reckless drivers to play by the same rules as the rest of us! I bet the only ones complaining are the habitual light runners and speeders, and they are just angry they're less likely to get away with making bad decisions on the road. I think the cameras will make them think again and that will make us all safer!
16
This isn't about mission creep ... This is about enforcing traffic laws and keeping people safe. Studies have shown that using red light cameras reduce the number of accidents. They also make drivers think twice before running a red light.
17
We all know that these systems are going to be common place accross the country.
They have proven to reduce property damage and personal injury. So why not just relax about the whole thing and obey the law.
We all know that these systems are going to be common place accross the country.
They have proven to reduce property damage and personal injury. So why not just relax about the whole thing and obey the law.
They have proven to reduce property damage and personal injury. So why not just relax about the whole thing and obey the law.
We all know that these systems are going to be common place accross the country.
They have proven to reduce property damage and personal injury. So why not just relax about the whole thing and obey the law.
18
What scares me more than red light cameras are the people commenting on this article! Death threats? Rear end accidents? Check the research and the other cities that have these cameras- they reduce accidents! If you don't want to pay the fine- then don't do the crime.
19
Love this! I hate speeders/cars in general. I reported a Tri-Met driver (45 Garden Home) yesterday (and Tri-Met ignored me, of course)
20
"Wait 'til you all find out what percentage of the ticket revenue goes to the company installing and maintaining the cameras versus how much goes into the city's coffers."
And then.... So what? If people follow the limits/signs they have nothing to worry about. These are heavy machines traveling very fast, I'd be happy if it reduced speeds at any price.
And then.... So what? If people follow the limits/signs they have nothing to worry about. These are heavy machines traveling very fast, I'd be happy if it reduced speeds at any price.
21
Did somebody order a red-light camera douchebag salesman from Central Casting, or is Vincent for real?
22
"Once we use the information to issue the citation, the database is clear. Once we have issued the citation then the information is deleted."
Sounds fair to me. And if the cameras can do anything to make people drive a little safer, I think they should be used more frequently, especially in areas where children are present like schools and parks.
Sounds fair to me. And if the cameras can do anything to make people drive a little safer, I think they should be used more frequently, especially in areas where children are present like schools and parks.
23
The whole purpose of these cameras is to keep the streets safer, and fine those who break the law, not to hunt down loan violators. Give me a break.
24
Cameras are a blessing in disguise. It's easy to point at the money, but you can't argue with the statistics and prevention.
25
7.5 million dollars to install a bunch of digital cameras? And why does it go to companies like ACS or IBM which have most of its employees in offshore countries. No wonder the tax payer cannot trust the government anymore. :-(
Secondly, whatever happened to the buy local mantra of Portland? I bet the vibrant techie community in Portland could have done the same work cheaper, smarter and more innovatively.
Secondly, whatever happened to the buy local mantra of Portland? I bet the vibrant techie community in Portland could have done the same work cheaper, smarter and more innovatively.
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