This Week in the Mercury
Thursday, June 3, 2010
Cops Vegan Restaurant Throws Out Cop After Serving Him Coffee
Posted by Angela Webber on Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:14 PM
Red & Black Cafe co-owner John Langley said he "never expected an police officer" to come to his restaurant. And when one did, last month, he asked him to leave.
The Oregonian reported this afternoon:
[Portland police Officer James Crooker] popped into the Red & Black cafe on Southeast 12th Avenue near Oak Street, bought a coffee and was heading out when a customer [local writer Cornelia Seigneur] approached him, saying she appreciates the hard job that police officers do every day in Portland.One of the co-owners of the cafe, John Langley, has another point of view. While the officer and customer were chatting, he walked up and asked Crooker to leave, saying he felt uncomfortable having a uniformed officer in the vegan cafe.
Seigneur posted about the incident on her blog, but took down the post after the site was flooded with comments.
Langley said that the uniformed cop may have made some of his customers feel uncomfortable, particularly homeless people and activists who may have been targets of police harassment in the past.
Update: Cornelia Seigneur's original blog post about the incident is back up again!
4
He's pretty brazen, being a target of harassment by activists and homeless people in the past and all.
7
Enjoy the quick police response when some drunky poops on your front door step or smashes a window, R + B.
8
Shouldn't this read "Anarchist Restaurant" instead of "Vegan Restaurant"? Seems more pertinent to the discussion.
11
Wow, I will never again patronize the Red and Black. While I understand that the PP have had their share of failure lately, this kind of behavior is straight discriminatory.
12
Yeah, I tried their vegan reuben but my partner's is just way better. And they made me feel silly for not having cash on me. And dude, I'm paying to patron your establishment, I'm tired of the douchey "I'm cool because I ignore people" attitude.
13
Hey, when they are all Chris Humphrey's they are all frightening apparitions. I for one feel safer knowing there will not be any at the Red and Black.
15
Ha ha ha, thank you for the LULZ!! It seems that you can't be a douche and hide behind the "vegan" label after all. I too wish that I wasn't already a non-patron of this place so that I could become one.
16
I went to the Red and Black cafe site and by first glance thought they were peaceful and organic. But apparently I was wrong. It is amazing how someone who claims to be so peaceful is truly so hateful. These are the type of people who are most scary to me - people who claim they are one way, but by their actions are completely the opposite. What a hypocrite. I vote to boycott this cafe.
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So I guess by the Red and Black's logic, it is ok for a restaurant to ask a homeless man to leave because he is making the more well-to-do customers "uncomfortable" and "intimidated"?
19
You've got to be shitting me. This story is fucking ridiculous. I'm SO relieved that most others seem to agree.
20
Glad to see all of the mercury trolls were able to pull their heads out of the bong water long enough to come to the aid of the police.
Isn't it funny that the same trolls from the oregonian and katu troll here. Way to go mercury, bringing bad news to a new level, err no keeping the status quo.
At least the red and black has some integrity, which is far more than I can say for the suburbanite hipster wannabes that read the mercury.
Isn't it funny that the same trolls from the oregonian and katu troll here. Way to go mercury, bringing bad news to a new level, err no keeping the status quo.
At least the red and black has some integrity, which is far more than I can say for the suburbanite hipster wannabes that read the mercury.
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I'd be careful about throwing around terms like "suburban hipster wannabes" when you're defending a business that sells coffee for $12 per pound. They're not quite the Symbionese Liberation Army.
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@kincardine
yeah, slave labor is pretty cheap, but, alas, not fair trade (like the r and b's coffee)
yeah, slave labor is pretty cheap, but, alas, not fair trade (like the r and b's coffee)
24
Good! Now they just need to kick out the idiots that frequent the mercury website and it will actually be a comfortable space. Oh wait, you are all too busy hanging out at the arby's in gresham to even bother coming to innersouth east.
Gee, I bet that the R&B is missing out on some high class clientele here. Lol
Gee, I bet that the R&B is missing out on some high class clientele here. Lol
25
In 1952 the City of Portland passed an ordinance that finally made it illegal for places of public accommodation to not allow anyone access due to race, religion, national origin, etc... Apparently 58 years later we find out that they should have included employer and employment in the list. Mr. Langley's version of bigotry is just as offensive as those of the past. I'm sure that those nice white folks in 1950 were "uncomfortable" when a "colored" person tried to use their businesses too. There is no excuse or valid reason...don't try to defend him.
26
You guys are on gawker! Yipee!
Too bad it doesn't make sense and they have no idea re: why people might be mad at Portland Cops. Oh well, least they didn't steal your iphone prototype.
Too bad it doesn't make sense and they have no idea re: why people might be mad at Portland Cops. Oh well, least they didn't steal your iphone prototype.
27
I totally agree with b!x's comment. Maybe I could give them negative business?
I've felt pretty critical of the police recently, but dude was just getting coffee! I'm glad that Mr. Langley is just as prone to going nuclear over nothing as the dregs of our police force are.
I've felt pretty critical of the police recently, but dude was just getting coffee! I'm glad that Mr. Langley is just as prone to going nuclear over nothing as the dregs of our police force are.
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Well, I'm happy that the next time I go to the Red and Black (soon) I won't have to sit next to the reactionary trolls that post here. Do you actually know the whole story, or do you just believe whatever the media tells you?
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Wait, you mean to tell me that anarchists don't like cops? What a newsworthy story sure to be the first time that anyone has ever realized an ideological gap between authority and anti-authoritarians! Beautiful scoop!
The intillectual vacuum here at the mercury sure doesn't like to hide behind any superficial facade. Mercury stupid is smack you in the face stupid.
The intillectual vacuum here at the mercury sure doesn't like to hide behind any superficial facade. Mercury stupid is smack you in the face stupid.
30
@Bhowie
You said, "do you just believe whatever the media tells you?"
It's sort of funny. I hear the exact same thing from Sarah Palin too. I don't believe her either.
You said, "do you just believe whatever the media tells you?"
It's sort of funny. I hear the exact same thing from Sarah Palin too. I don't believe her either.
31
@Bhowie Sarah Palin would also likely tell you not to listen to the edicts of Ayatollah Khamenei, are we to take it that you would follow the precise opposite of that advice merely because Sarah Palin is stupid and her intention in saying that is idiotic?
Bhowie has just bottomed out the threshold of ignorance out on this comment thread.
Bhowie has just bottomed out the threshold of ignorance out on this comment thread.
33
Stop. Whining. What kind of hypocrite wants to *discourage* a local cop from visiting a local business? and what kind of ahole presumes that no decent person can be a cop?
shut up. you're doing it wrong.
ps @ jilljohnson - WOOOOOOOH, those greshamites sure must be scared to visit the apparently-somehow-more-santimonious-than-i-thought-possible inner SE. DANG. Seriously. People are too deep in their suburban vacuum to...visit...an urban vacuum? Who are you trying to call out here, and how is such a callout even possible?
shut up. you're doing it wrong.
ps @ jilljohnson - WOOOOOOOH, those greshamites sure must be scared to visit the apparently-somehow-more-santimonious-than-i-thought-possible inner SE. DANG. Seriously. People are too deep in their suburban vacuum to...visit...an urban vacuum? Who are you trying to call out here, and how is such a callout even possible?
34
This isn't about being an apologist for the police. This is about John Langley being a hateful moron. His were the actions of a bigoted asshat who fails to see the irony in his own hypocrisy. If only he could truly see himself, he might realize that he embodies that which he hates.
Finally, these commenters making judgements about the Mercury readership are clearly ignorant. Anyone that has been on Blogtown for a little while will realize that there are all different types of people that read and comment here, and most of them don't seem to be hipsters.
Finally, these commenters making judgements about the Mercury readership are clearly ignorant. Anyone that has been on Blogtown for a little while will realize that there are all different types of people that read and comment here, and most of them don't seem to be hipsters.
35
We're probably well past the point of civil discourse in this thread, but...... (and disclaimer: I don't patronize the Red and Black, and I don't even really agree with Mssr. Langley's lawful exercising of his rights as a proprietor)
I would be willing to be that no one would bat an eye (and many would laud the R&B as heroes) if the person denied service were not a cop but a member of Westboro Baptist or a Klansman or a BP executive. But, even with the substantial number of legitimate grievances our community has against the police, this act cannot stand? I don't get it. 600 cops march on City Hall to protest a disciplinary action against a guy who has a history of violence and has killed a man? Yeah, I think a lot of people may feel intimidated by their defense of the thin blue line. Was it douchey of Mssr. Langley and the R&B to kick out a cop (who was apparently leaving anyway)? Yes. But perhaps it might inspire just a few of the vast majority of PPB officers who aren't gigantic assholes to stop and think about why a lot of people in the community don't trust or respect the police. We're past the point of putting faith in the PPB policing itself. Maybe it's time to make a concerted effort to force the bureau into some self reflection.
I would be willing to be that no one would bat an eye (and many would laud the R&B as heroes) if the person denied service were not a cop but a member of Westboro Baptist or a Klansman or a BP executive. But, even with the substantial number of legitimate grievances our community has against the police, this act cannot stand? I don't get it. 600 cops march on City Hall to protest a disciplinary action against a guy who has a history of violence and has killed a man? Yeah, I think a lot of people may feel intimidated by their defense of the thin blue line. Was it douchey of Mssr. Langley and the R&B to kick out a cop (who was apparently leaving anyway)? Yes. But perhaps it might inspire just a few of the vast majority of PPB officers who aren't gigantic assholes to stop and think about why a lot of people in the community don't trust or respect the police. We're past the point of putting faith in the PPB policing itself. Maybe it's time to make a concerted effort to force the bureau into some self reflection.
36
@pffft I didn't say that you suburbanites were scared to visit SE, I was just implying (though you're probably lacking a sense of subtlety as that seems to proceed from the capability of analytical thought) that you would be too easily distracted by the newest sit-com and the shiny golden arches that line the exit from gresham to be able to make it out here.
I know, I know, it must be tough living so close to so many walmarts and KFCs, the temptation to stick your head in a vat of budwiser and putrifying chicken-grease while gurgling and burping your way through the newest the office is far too appealing for you to resist, thus making a life in any real human sense completely out of your reach. I know this and I should probably be encouraging you to break that chain rather than brutally attacking your stupidity for a small sense of amusement, but sometimes chastisement is cathartic and ya'll deserve it anyhow.
I know, I know, it must be tough living so close to so many walmarts and KFCs, the temptation to stick your head in a vat of budwiser and putrifying chicken-grease while gurgling and burping your way through the newest the office is far too appealing for you to resist, thus making a life in any real human sense completely out of your reach. I know this and I should probably be encouraging you to break that chain rather than brutally attacking your stupidity for a small sense of amusement, but sometimes chastisement is cathartic and ya'll deserve it anyhow.
37
So, R+B has alienated the cops... fair enough. Earns 'em some cred with a certain slice of their customer base, I suppose. But when some drifter wanders over from St. Francis Park and starts spewing schizophrenic nonsense at the customers, or if there's a break-in, or (God forbid) if there's a hold-up or some sort of violent encounter... who exactly are they gonna call? Blackwater?
What a bunch of entitled pricks. They grow up enjoying, and being protected by, the benefits of the infrastructure that was built long before they were born, then complain about those now tasked to maintain it. This is exactly the problem with America right now, on the left, on the right and everywhere in-between... We look to our public institutions for blame, without even realizing we're looking into a mirror.
Pogo was right...
What a bunch of entitled pricks. They grow up enjoying, and being protected by, the benefits of the infrastructure that was built long before they were born, then complain about those now tasked to maintain it. This is exactly the problem with America right now, on the left, on the right and everywhere in-between... We look to our public institutions for blame, without even realizing we're looking into a mirror.
Pogo was right...
38
Hey Garrett,
Are you not a shill for an international PR firm?
Do you really expect us to believe you?
Are you not a shill for an international PR firm?
Do you really expect us to believe you?
39
Dear jilljiohnson:
As someone said earlier, your doing it wrong.
You instantly discredit yourself when you start insulting the person you are supposed to be having a rational discussion with. Your passive aggressive style of writing (and I am sure every day living) is self-defeating. Your stereotyping (which usually is a red flag for a racist) of both SE PDXers and the suburbanites of PDX are not only wrong but a little scary. How many people do you actually know and interact with. Do you not know or interact with by choice or not people that live in SE PDX that don't get it and eat at mceedees every day etc... don't you know even one person that lives in the suburbs that lives a life that you, the judgment wizard that you are, approve of? If not I suggest that you expand you circle of friends, get out meet people, lay off the PBR for one week. Until then just STFU and quit attacking people for where they live, it's ethnocentric and not attractive. By the way I live in SE PDX because i love it, but not because of transplants like you that move here and think you discovered the town and you are the perfect PDXer.
As someone said earlier, your doing it wrong.
You instantly discredit yourself when you start insulting the person you are supposed to be having a rational discussion with. Your passive aggressive style of writing (and I am sure every day living) is self-defeating. Your stereotyping (which usually is a red flag for a racist) of both SE PDXers and the suburbanites of PDX are not only wrong but a little scary. How many people do you actually know and interact with. Do you not know or interact with by choice or not people that live in SE PDX that don't get it and eat at mceedees every day etc... don't you know even one person that lives in the suburbs that lives a life that you, the judgment wizard that you are, approve of? If not I suggest that you expand you circle of friends, get out meet people, lay off the PBR for one week. Until then just STFU and quit attacking people for where they live, it's ethnocentric and not attractive. By the way I live in SE PDX because i love it, but not because of transplants like you that move here and think you discovered the town and you are the perfect PDXer.
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@Holden Oversoul: Did you just equate attacking the suburban lifestyle (a malignant cesspool of consumerism known to be responsible for the expanding burden that the U.S. places on the world both in human and environmental costs, by virtue of its excessive indifference and rampant demand for consumption) to ethnocentrism, and implicitly to racism? ROFLMAO! Wait, seriously? Get over yourself, I'm sure that it was a brilliant 2AM logical leap for you to make, but it's now 6AM and when I read it, you sound like you're from another universe (a universe that is strikingly similar in its distance from reality to that of the suburbs but I know that isn't the universe that you are in because you told me anonymously online that you live in SE portland and that is surely no lie).
41
Boycott the Red & Black Cafe...Real simple. Show them that the grownups realize most cops are regular people doing a difficult job, and they usually act with professionalism and restraint.
Kudos to the cop for not taking it personally.
BOYCOTT RED & BLACK!
Kudos to the cop for not taking it personally.
BOYCOTT RED & BLACK!
45
Why don't folks get uniformed up and throw a sit-in?
"I'm sorry sir but we don't serve police here".
"Well, I don't eat 'em!"
"I'm sorry sir but we don't serve police here".
"Well, I don't eat 'em!"
46
@JillJohnson You are seriously not helping yourself my making irrational arguments. If you want people to take you seriously, stereotyping an enormous group of people won't further your credibility. Gresham, as a suburb, is not particularly ethnocentric - it's about as diverse as Portland, which isn't very diverse, compared to most other major cities. And inner SE? Full of white yuppies - sounds pretty ethnocentric to me. Suburbs and sprawl are a huge problem - but a lot of people live in those places because the city is too expensive (can you say gentrification?) - rent is cheaper out there, people without much money tend to buy fast food because they can't afford/don't have easy access to better food. It's the structure of society that has created what suburbs are, not always the people who currently live there.
And FYI - PDX is fuulllll of fast food. And office buildings. Ever been to Lloyd Center? Lombard? Sandy? Powell? Foster? 82nd? MLK?
And FYI - PDX is fuulllll of fast food. And office buildings. Ever been to Lloyd Center? Lombard? Sandy? Powell? Foster? 82nd? MLK?
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My blog is back up and I posted a follow up blog as well - cornelia seigneur
http://www.corneliaseigneur.com/where%e2%8…
http://www.corneliaseigneur.com/where%e2%8…
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Restaurants ask people who bother their customers to leave the establishment all the time. In most places an owner would ask a homeless person to leave because they are bothering customers. If this restaurant has a lot of activist who dine their then it makes perfect sense they wouldn't want a uniformed officer around. Please have a history of making trouble with activits.
We shouldn't be discriminatory any more than we have to, but asking a police officer to leave, while silly, it's the biggest deal in the world.
We shouldn't be discriminatory any more than we have to, but asking a police officer to leave, while silly, it's the biggest deal in the world.
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@madelodactyl: Thank you madelodactyl for that profound proclamation. I am certain that you have struck the deep well of objective truth when determining how and whether I am helping myself, in whatever it is that you determine my need for help to derive from (that seems to be unclear at the moment because your astutely rational and logically compelling critique, otherwise flawless in its articulation seems to have left that out)
BTW madelodactyl, are you using a different meaning of ethnocentric than I am? Because you seem to cast ethnocentrism as contrast to the diversity within gresham. Now, I might be wrong here but if I still understand english (which is not to be so quickly assumed after the trepanning I have received from forcing myself to read the inane comments from the suburbanites here trying to pull defense of their commercialesque lifestyles out of colonel sanders rectum) ethnocentrism is a focus upon ones own culture as preeminent to all others. Now, if I have my understanding of culture correct, different soap opera choices and diverse SUV styles do not mean different cultures, but rather variation from within a culture.
All of which is to say, despite your rigidly logical and otherwise incontrovertible position, you are conflating terms. The term ethnocentrism with the term... well actually it is unclear what the term is but whatever it is it means the opposite of "the diversity within gresham" (a term which itself is nearly a logical contradiction). Logicians are still debating whether such a term can be employed without creating the lexicographical equivalent of a singularity.
Also, don't take my unhelpful irrational arguments as any defense SE or Portland at large. Clearly they are both filled with gentrifying idiots (including those hipsters that your suburban pal are so envious of), however since your otherwise infallible sense of context seems to have missed the flow of conversation the discussion was focused on the Red and Black which (though it may have seemed random to you) happens to be in SE.
Would it be to much for me to burden you with at the moment to point out that your "poor people don't know any better" argument is classist. As a poor person myself I feel like the poor people can't help themselves from eating fast food and shopping at walmart argument is a bit outdated. Then again, as you clearly elucidated for us all, my arguments are unhelpful to my (as yet still uncertain) aims, and irrational as well. So then it must be the case that the suburbs are indeed the paragon of diversity, sustainability and social responsibility that you claim them to be.
More...
BTW madelodactyl, are you using a different meaning of ethnocentric than I am? Because you seem to cast ethnocentrism as contrast to the diversity within gresham. Now, I might be wrong here but if I still understand english (which is not to be so quickly assumed after the trepanning I have received from forcing myself to read the inane comments from the suburbanites here trying to pull defense of their commercialesque lifestyles out of colonel sanders rectum) ethnocentrism is a focus upon ones own culture as preeminent to all others. Now, if I have my understanding of culture correct, different soap opera choices and diverse SUV styles do not mean different cultures, but rather variation from within a culture.
All of which is to say, despite your rigidly logical and otherwise incontrovertible position, you are conflating terms. The term ethnocentrism with the term... well actually it is unclear what the term is but whatever it is it means the opposite of "the diversity within gresham" (a term which itself is nearly a logical contradiction). Logicians are still debating whether such a term can be employed without creating the lexicographical equivalent of a singularity.
Also, don't take my unhelpful irrational arguments as any defense SE or Portland at large. Clearly they are both filled with gentrifying idiots (including those hipsters that your suburban pal are so envious of), however since your otherwise infallible sense of context seems to have missed the flow of conversation the discussion was focused on the Red and Black which (though it may have seemed random to you) happens to be in SE.
Would it be to much for me to burden you with at the moment to point out that your "poor people don't know any better" argument is classist. As a poor person myself I feel like the poor people can't help themselves from eating fast food and shopping at walmart argument is a bit outdated. Then again, as you clearly elucidated for us all, my arguments are unhelpful to my (as yet still uncertain) aims, and irrational as well. So then it must be the case that the suburbs are indeed the paragon of diversity, sustainability and social responsibility that you claim them to be.
50
Langley's comment is precisely why I wrote the original blog, WHERE'S A POLICE OFFICER TO GET A CUP OF COFFEE?" - I spoke at length with him about this while I witnessed this happening and he said he feels unsafe. But I never got the answer to why? He says he is preyed upon but I want to know a specific example - still no specifics.
http://www.corneliaseigneur.com/part-2-whe…
http://www.corneliaseigneur.com/part-2-whe…
51
I'm not sure why I'm adding the the intellectual clutter here, I guess just to deal with some stereotypes by some ridiculous trolls. This must mean I'm over-caffeinated and bored.
Anyway, I live in the inner NE and work at a cafe in the inner SE. I've never been to the red & black, so I guess I'm not sure what goes on there, but it would take a lot for me to kick out a paying customer. I worked at a cafe in CA in a location where a lot of homeless people hung out and if they could scrounge up a dollar for coffee I always let them hang out and drink it, even if they offended the sensibilities of my regular clientčle. The way I figure it everyone needs to be pushed out of their comfort zone every once in a while and paying customers deserve to enjoy what they paid for, which is not just a cup of coffee but some time to take a load of and enjoy it someplace comfortable and warm.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I can't imagine feeling differently about a cop who scrounged up a dollar for a cup, even if my customer base was of the type that felt threatened by men or women in uniform. What amazes me though is that no one actually seemed to feel threatened by the officer except Langley himself. And he has every right to do whatever he wants in his cafe. But just because the rest of us feel like he's kind of being a prick, does not mean we fit nicely into your neat little box of ignorant suburbanites.
One more thing, a commenter up thread (Bhowie, I believe) mentioned that none of us even knew the real story and were willing to believe whatever the media told us, but that commenter never enlightened us on the real story, which I would like to know.
Anyway, I live in the inner NE and work at a cafe in the inner SE. I've never been to the red & black, so I guess I'm not sure what goes on there, but it would take a lot for me to kick out a paying customer. I worked at a cafe in CA in a location where a lot of homeless people hung out and if they could scrounge up a dollar for coffee I always let them hang out and drink it, even if they offended the sensibilities of my regular clientčle. The way I figure it everyone needs to be pushed out of their comfort zone every once in a while and paying customers deserve to enjoy what they paid for, which is not just a cup of coffee but some time to take a load of and enjoy it someplace comfortable and warm.
So I guess what I'm saying is that I can't imagine feeling differently about a cop who scrounged up a dollar for a cup, even if my customer base was of the type that felt threatened by men or women in uniform. What amazes me though is that no one actually seemed to feel threatened by the officer except Langley himself. And he has every right to do whatever he wants in his cafe. But just because the rest of us feel like he's kind of being a prick, does not mean we fit nicely into your neat little box of ignorant suburbanites.
One more thing, a commenter up thread (Bhowie, I believe) mentioned that none of us even knew the real story and were willing to believe whatever the media told us, but that commenter never enlightened us on the real story, which I would like to know.
52
Forgive me if I misinterpreted some of your previous statements, but it seemed to me that you were making assumptions about an entire group of people (suburbanites), while ignoring the fact that the inner SE has a lot of the same problems you accuse suburbia of having. I also understand the meaning of ethnocentrism, and I was simply trying to point out that you can't accuse suburbia with being ethnocentric without accusing the yuppies of inner SE of being ethnocentric as well.
I am also below the poverty line, and live pretty f-ing close to Gresham, though still in Portland. I found that the less money, I have, the worse I eat, because I can't afford a lot of high quality produce. Saying that lack of access and inability to afford good food prevent someone from eating well is quite different from saying "they don't know any better". So now I live out here, because I have found that housing prices closer in are generally to high for me to afford while living on a housing lot large enough for me to grow my own food (my solution to the high prices of local/organic/fact that organic does not necessarily mean sustainable). Aaand, there are quite a few people out here like me. So you can stop generalizing.
But you're right, we have gotten off track. Feel free to continue discussing the cop situation. And by discuss, I mean continue to accuse everyone who disagrees with the R&B as being a suburbanite who can't get their heads out of the KFC deep fryer. Or whatever other compelling argument you had previously put forth.
I am also below the poverty line, and live pretty f-ing close to Gresham, though still in Portland. I found that the less money, I have, the worse I eat, because I can't afford a lot of high quality produce. Saying that lack of access and inability to afford good food prevent someone from eating well is quite different from saying "they don't know any better". So now I live out here, because I have found that housing prices closer in are generally to high for me to afford while living on a housing lot large enough for me to grow my own food (my solution to the high prices of local/organic/fact that organic does not necessarily mean sustainable). Aaand, there are quite a few people out here like me. So you can stop generalizing.
But you're right, we have gotten off track. Feel free to continue discussing the cop situation. And by discuss, I mean continue to accuse everyone who disagrees with the R&B as being a suburbanite who can't get their heads out of the KFC deep fryer. Or whatever other compelling argument you had previously put forth.
55
@SP: What will you do without your foil? I imagine Moriarty got bored after he had Holmes killed.
56
"We strive to provide a community space that is safe and welcoming to all. "
http://www.myspace.com/redandblackcafe
http://www.myspace.com/redandblackcafe
57
Shit is about to get live-just made front page of cnn.com
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/06/04/dnt.coffee.shop.bans.cop.kgw?hpt=C2
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2010/06/04/dnt.coffee.shop.bans.cop.kgw?hpt=C2
58
Maybe we can divert all the mentally ill that are safety delivered to our emergency departments by police to the Red and Black. I am sure muffin and sandwich makers could show us a thing or two about handling a violent paranoid schizophrenic or a someone freaking out on meth.
59
I question the intention of any person choosing to stick their nose into a confrontational situation and then writing a blog about it. For anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes in R&B, it's pretty clear why the police officer was asked to leave. Where can a police officer get a cup of coffee? Starbucks, Stumptown, Shari's, McDonalds, Seattle's Best, Java Man, Denny's, The Original House of Pancakes, etc. are all good places to start. Many of these coffee retailers even have drive-thru locations (great for when you want to make the cool cop car entrance).
61
"For anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes in R&B, it's pretty clear why the police officer was asked to leave."
Fruit Cup-
How about expounding on that for the rest of us that don't patronize that establishment? Maybe we don't know exactly how patrons of the R&B feel, and maybe we want to understand.
That seems to be the crux of the discussion at hand, doesn't it? Understanding what exactly the specific reasons are, and evidence for the owner concluding that the police officer was a threat to his customers? Why, if those reasons are rooted in a general sentiment of distrust toward the police, is it ok for this business owner to treat this one particular police office the way he did?
Isn't that the very definition of discrimination, the application of general sentiments to specific persons by way of an exclusionary practice? For all the owner of R&B knows, that officer may agree with him on a number of sociopolitical issues, but he wouldn't be able to find that out if he immediately dismissed the officer in a discriminatory fashion.
And, furthermore, while we all know that the Portland Police department has plenty of problems, how exactly is discriminating against them like this conducive to fostering a better relationship and a greater understanding between them and their constituency? How is it going to help them improve their performance, and motivate them to work more compassionately with the communities they serve?
Fruit Cup-
How about expounding on that for the rest of us that don't patronize that establishment? Maybe we don't know exactly how patrons of the R&B feel, and maybe we want to understand.
That seems to be the crux of the discussion at hand, doesn't it? Understanding what exactly the specific reasons are, and evidence for the owner concluding that the police officer was a threat to his customers? Why, if those reasons are rooted in a general sentiment of distrust toward the police, is it ok for this business owner to treat this one particular police office the way he did?
Isn't that the very definition of discrimination, the application of general sentiments to specific persons by way of an exclusionary practice? For all the owner of R&B knows, that officer may agree with him on a number of sociopolitical issues, but he wouldn't be able to find that out if he immediately dismissed the officer in a discriminatory fashion.
And, furthermore, while we all know that the Portland Police department has plenty of problems, how exactly is discriminating against them like this conducive to fostering a better relationship and a greater understanding between them and their constituency? How is it going to help them improve their performance, and motivate them to work more compassionately with the communities they serve?
62
THIS IS AMERICA PEOPLE! Saying a police officer can't go into R&B because he makes the homeless and others uncomfortable is like saying a homeless person can't go into starbucks because he makes those patrons uncomfrotable. If you were being raped or someone stole something from you, you would call that same police department and beg for their help. My brother is a police officer, I think he's a prick but he's a great officer. You don't know what these guys go through on a daily basis. It takes a special caliber of person to be a cop. There are some bad apples in the bunch, happens everywhere....look at the ratio in the government right now. That police officer has done more to help people than probably anyone else on here. Unless you go out and do something impactful and truly make a difference for the community and make it a safer place then you should do nothing but respect that person.....even if you don't like them.
Maybe we should start posting pictures of child molesters everywhere so they can be asked to leave wherever I may be, because that is far worse. Especially since atleast two of the patrons that I've seen in the R&B are convicted child molesters, you can find everything on the internet these days.
Maybe we should start posting pictures of child molesters everywhere so they can be asked to leave wherever I may be, because that is far worse. Especially since atleast two of the patrons that I've seen in the R&B are convicted child molesters, you can find everything on the internet these days.
63
Check out all the updates on the Red and Black profilers at the following website:
http://redblackcafeprofilers.weebly.com/
http://redblackcafeprofilers.weebly.com/
64
It would be one thing if the cop had been thrown out while off-duty -- THEN he could claim discrimination. But he was in uniform. As long as Langley and the other customers were doing nothing to break the law, there was no reason for a cop to be there. I used to work for a police department, and I know one of the "reasons" for cops to take lunch or coffee breaks in cafes was for intimidation if they didn't like someone who worked there or frequented the place. If, as Langley says, they had problems in the past with some of their customers being harassed by police, he had every right to ask police to leave - it's just good business to protect your customers. I say, good for Langley for having the ----- to stand up to unwarranted intimidation and provide a refuge for his customers.
65
One of my last professors lambasted us all for using mystery quotes when writing our papers. He seemed generally confused by what we were trying to convey by puttting certain words inside of quotation marks. His opinion was that if you dislike something or don't agree with it, say so and make your arguments reflect your perspective. I'm looking at you ex-pd. Why the hell did you put the word reasons inside of quotation marks?
66
@ex-pd: Oooooh, how intimidating. "May I have a cup of coffee?" Holy crap, I'm quaking in my boots at the very thought! :-O
What exactly makes you think he went in there to intimidate, rather than, oh I don't know, just get something to drink? Sometimes a pipe IS just a pipe...
What exactly makes you think he went in there to intimidate, rather than, oh I don't know, just get something to drink? Sometimes a pipe IS just a pipe...
67
@Snaggle
I suck with words. Frankly, I'm surprised Blogtown let me register a user identity to post. Power to the people, I guess.
As far as R&B: it's a worker owned, communal minded cafe. It's also vegan (which, really, shouldn't be a part of the conversation). If you want to understand the place: go there without any expectations and order a sandwich. Also bring cash as the debit card/credit card situation blows.
I suck with words. Frankly, I'm surprised Blogtown let me register a user identity to post. Power to the people, I guess.
As far as R&B: it's a worker owned, communal minded cafe. It's also vegan (which, really, shouldn't be a part of the conversation). If you want to understand the place: go there without any expectations and order a sandwich. Also bring cash as the debit card/credit card situation blows.
68
ex-pd has touched on something though, and that is: whether or not Langley's actions were appropriate depend almost entirely on the officer's demeanor and reason for being there. My knee-jerk reaction was like "this guy's a douche" - tossing out a paying customer just for being in uniform? But maybe there WAS more going on, and he WAS protecting his other patrons. None of us really know those details. So none of us is really fit to judge this.
69
terrible isn't it? (snif...snif...snif) well, get over it is best advice I can give and why not this same level of outrage when a fellow citizen is killed by these dudes. don't forget what they are and who they are, and most important...
don't forget that YOU could be the next citizen killed by these rogues!
don't forget that YOU could be the next citizen killed by these rogues!
71
@ jilljohnson. You seem smart so why don't you get it. I don't care about this issue, I dislike cops and anarchists equally. My point (as well as the other poster) was that attacking people is not the way to win an argument, you lose credibility, you know that one little important thing.
Wait! Your poor and you don't shop at Walmart (located in SE PDX)?!?!
But I thought that all poor people shop at Walmart, just like all people who live in the suburb drove SUV's and err....nevermind. Had i known you were just a troll I would have never responded to you. How many times have you checked back to see if anyone responded to your brilliant post. 50, 100, 150? Do you get butterflies in your stomach when you see that someone has and you get to tear them a new one. How sad. You are pathetic. Your posts scream of ethnocentrism, bigotry, generalizations, and hate. Furthermore they have no substance. For example your last post to madelodactyl can be summed as this:
Thank-you for your post I disagree. blah blah blah...
Definition of ethnocentrism. blah blah blah...
more generalizations and stereotyping about people that live in a certain location that is inferior to yours but somehow this to you is not ethnocentrism blah blah blah..
More drivel with no substance.
I see you have your thesaurus handy, does it help your low self esteem? They say that people who purposefully use words that they THINK other people won't understand lack self confidence and worth and are trying to overcompensate for inadequacies in their lives.
Who knows? I've always cogitated that sesquipedalian terminology obfuscates the rumination. That cabal of pompous polysyllabic pontificators can osculate my gluts.
By the way fucktard, I do live in SE PDX and have for over ten years. I pay property taxes that help support Multnomah County, do you? Probably not, too busy crushing PBRs, couch surfing, working on your fixe, etc.. to bother saving to buy a house. I know it shatters your world that someone that lives near you could possibly disagree with you but it is true. But in your imaginary world it is easier for you to group people geographically so why don't you just keep rolling with that.
More...
Wait! Your poor and you don't shop at Walmart (located in SE PDX)?!?!
But I thought that all poor people shop at Walmart, just like all people who live in the suburb drove SUV's and err....nevermind. Had i known you were just a troll I would have never responded to you. How many times have you checked back to see if anyone responded to your brilliant post. 50, 100, 150? Do you get butterflies in your stomach when you see that someone has and you get to tear them a new one. How sad. You are pathetic. Your posts scream of ethnocentrism, bigotry, generalizations, and hate. Furthermore they have no substance. For example your last post to madelodactyl can be summed as this:
Thank-you for your post I disagree. blah blah blah...
Definition of ethnocentrism. blah blah blah...
more generalizations and stereotyping about people that live in a certain location that is inferior to yours but somehow this to you is not ethnocentrism blah blah blah..
More drivel with no substance.
I see you have your thesaurus handy, does it help your low self esteem? They say that people who purposefully use words that they THINK other people won't understand lack self confidence and worth and are trying to overcompensate for inadequacies in their lives.
Who knows? I've always cogitated that sesquipedalian terminology obfuscates the rumination. That cabal of pompous polysyllabic pontificators can osculate my gluts.
By the way fucktard, I do live in SE PDX and have for over ten years. I pay property taxes that help support Multnomah County, do you? Probably not, too busy crushing PBRs, couch surfing, working on your fixe, etc.. to bother saving to buy a house. I know it shatters your world that someone that lives near you could possibly disagree with you but it is true. But in your imaginary world it is easier for you to group people geographically so why don't you just keep rolling with that.
75
TSW FTW!
I wonder how many non-uniformed police officers will be frequenting the Red and Black now. Way to get yourselves on the radar guys. Those 20 something victims of oppression will have something to get paranoid about now. HA. I loved you until you went vegan and became haters of cream.
I wonder how many non-uniformed police officers will be frequenting the Red and Black now. Way to get yourselves on the radar guys. Those 20 something victims of oppression will have something to get paranoid about now. HA. I loved you until you went vegan and became haters of cream.
77
Whoever is boycotting Red & Black probably never goes there anyway, so it's kind of a moot point. Just sayin.
People are kicked out of places all the time (the homeless man in a starbucks example has become a cliche on this blog) and no one really cares. A LOT of businesses have a sign that says,"we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". They aren't breaking any laws by asking someone to leave that is threatening, on drugs, carrying weapons, being disruptive, etc. It's the fact that it's a police officer that really strikes a weak point for a lot of people apparently. The fact that he carries a gun seems not to matter to most of the people on this blog. i mean, yeah, he can legally carry it, but does that mean you want him in your establishment? (obviously some do, some don't)
It's understandable that the Red & Black, an anarchist, anti-authoritarian, activist hangout would feel threatened. If I worked there or was there as a customer I would be afraid that the cop was scoping the place out and I would feel uncomfortable. Honestly, I'm surprised that a police officer even went in there. If the cop was really on his way out then it was probably a stupid move to "throw" him out, akin to painting a target on your own back. But it's understandable. I would have done it differently, but then, I don't work there. In THIS specific location I think it's totally understandable and kind of expected.
I work in food service and I've served people that I don't like and/or agree with their philosophy or way of life. People with swastika tattoos for example that make me feel really uncomfortable. I still served them because it is a business and it's function is to sell goods for money. If I was working somewhere else, say a day camp for African American youth, and this (swastika tattooed) guy came in wanting to buy a T-shirt we were selling I would tell him to leave, take his business elsewhere because he made all of us uncomfortable. Do you see my point? That sometimes it's about the location, and not as much about the act of making someone leave. If you need to be in a place where cops hang out, go somewhere else. (trying not to say a donut shop...) Otherwise, does it really matter?
More...
People are kicked out of places all the time (the homeless man in a starbucks example has become a cliche on this blog) and no one really cares. A LOT of businesses have a sign that says,"we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". They aren't breaking any laws by asking someone to leave that is threatening, on drugs, carrying weapons, being disruptive, etc. It's the fact that it's a police officer that really strikes a weak point for a lot of people apparently. The fact that he carries a gun seems not to matter to most of the people on this blog. i mean, yeah, he can legally carry it, but does that mean you want him in your establishment? (obviously some do, some don't)
It's understandable that the Red & Black, an anarchist, anti-authoritarian, activist hangout would feel threatened. If I worked there or was there as a customer I would be afraid that the cop was scoping the place out and I would feel uncomfortable. Honestly, I'm surprised that a police officer even went in there. If the cop was really on his way out then it was probably a stupid move to "throw" him out, akin to painting a target on your own back. But it's understandable. I would have done it differently, but then, I don't work there. In THIS specific location I think it's totally understandable and kind of expected.
I work in food service and I've served people that I don't like and/or agree with their philosophy or way of life. People with swastika tattoos for example that make me feel really uncomfortable. I still served them because it is a business and it's function is to sell goods for money. If I was working somewhere else, say a day camp for African American youth, and this (swastika tattooed) guy came in wanting to buy a T-shirt we were selling I would tell him to leave, take his business elsewhere because he made all of us uncomfortable. Do you see my point? That sometimes it's about the location, and not as much about the act of making someone leave. If you need to be in a place where cops hang out, go somewhere else. (trying not to say a donut shop...) Otherwise, does it really matter?
79
It is ironic that the owner does have a right to refuse service to the policeman, but the policeman can never refuse "service" to the owner. And without the policeman, no one would protect the "rights" of the owner.
Who would the owner call if some other patron refused to leave his store?
Who would the owner call if some other patron refused to leave his store?
81
You have people who have been beaten, raped and generally abused by the police as customers there. Why wouldn't you want to disallow the police? Police who go there are just there to stir up trouble.
82
I have written a follow up blog post to my original post- cornelia seigneur
http://www.corneliaseigneur.com/part-2-whe…
http://www.corneliaseigneur.com/part-2-whe…
84
cops in an Anarchist café = dumb-shit foolish and stirring up the shit
corporate media blogger in anarchist café = looking for trouble (stirring up the shit)
ignorant posters on corporate media websites = stupidity exposed and now documented
red and black café in corporate news = jam packed café / upswing in business
victoria taft KPAM potty mouth coffee for cops stunt = embarrassment & cafe harassment
who ya gonna call discussion for R & B = it wont be calling cops unless a desire to be shot
misunderstanding on what anarchism is = 90% of the comments here & corporate media
R & B shit talkers opinions and concerns = Anarchists don't care what you think or want
accusations and slurs, insinuation = spreading disinformation, causing trouble, childish
grandstanding "law enforcement" cops on pedestals = inaccurate, overlooks police abuses
underwear in a bunch, slobbering, trolls and whiners = laughing anarchists & celebrations
corporate media blogger in anarchist café = looking for trouble (stirring up the shit)
ignorant posters on corporate media websites = stupidity exposed and now documented
red and black café in corporate news = jam packed café / upswing in business
victoria taft KPAM potty mouth coffee for cops stunt = embarrassment & cafe harassment
who ya gonna call discussion for R & B = it wont be calling cops unless a desire to be shot
misunderstanding on what anarchism is = 90% of the comments here & corporate media
R & B shit talkers opinions and concerns = Anarchists don't care what you think or want
accusations and slurs, insinuation = spreading disinformation, causing trouble, childish
grandstanding "law enforcement" cops on pedestals = inaccurate, overlooks police abuses
underwear in a bunch, slobbering, trolls and whiners = laughing anarchists & celebrations
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