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Wednesday, July 14, 2010

SL Letter of the Day: Raped Twice

Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:14 AM

I'm sure you've heard this a million times. I'm a 23 year-old male, and I've been living with my girlfriend of the same age for a little over a year now. We've been together for 18 months, and we've been disgustingly in love for every single minute of it. Neither of us have ever trusted someone so completely. Until a couple days ago, I had been the only person she's ever had sex with.

We went to a party, I left early. She stayed, and got dangerously drunk. She doesn't remember it at all, but after further research a guy—a complete stranger—was helping her throw up in the bathroom and they ended up going at it right there. She gave no impression that it wasn't consensual, but I can't help but wonder if it borders on rape. I can't express strongly enough how out of character this is for her. Everyone I know has been completely blindsided by the news.

She told me as soon as she could scrape together what happened, and seems to have gone in to a nearly catatonic state. I decided that we need some time apart, so she's staying with a friend down the street.

I have no idea what to do, Dan. She desperately wants to come home, but I don't know if I can handle it. I know she won't do it again, but I don't know if I can look at her or touch her without thinking about that creep. I don't know if I really know her, if there's some deep-seated issue that needs to be addressed (she swears there isn't, that this was a complete fluke). She doesn't drink often, but I don't know if I need to get her to an AA meeting.

I think I want to fix this, but when she insists that it was a completely random accident that will never happen again how do I even start? If there's no underlying problem then what do we work on?

Too Lost To Think Of A Clever Acronym


You are an asshole. The rest of my response after the jump.

•••••••••••

You are an asshole.

Sorry, TLTTOACA, but I had a bad morning—not nearly as bad as the mornings your girlfriend has no doubt had over the last few days—and I'm about to get on an airplane and I'm not in a coddlin' mood.

Now: I don't think that someone's been raped each and every time a person gets drunk and has sex. Sometimes a woman or a man gets drunk at party and, with the ol' inhibitions lowered by the booze, goes ahead and makes a conscious decision to cheat and is just capacitated enough to consent to sex that violates a commitment made to a live-in boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse/Fleshlight/whatever. But it sure sounds to me like your girlfriend was RAPED, you stupid motherfucker, first physically by the asshole at the party and then emotionally by the asshole at home.

She was black-out drunk and some guy—the asshole at the party—fucked her on the bathroom floor immediately after "helping her throw up"? And then you—the asshole at the home, the asshole who claims to love her—responded by throwing her out of the house?

OMFG.

Your girlfriend may be so wracked by guilt or regret or socialization that she can't see the "sex" she had at that party for the non-consensual assault that it was. But you should be able to, you stupid motherfucker. And her friends should be able to. (If she ever sees this, if she reads this: girl, you need a better boyfriend and better friends. And if you haven't gone to the police yet, you should.)

Backing up: I'm staggered that you would you respond to your girlfriend's victimization by ordering her to leave her apartment at a time when she needs to curl up in her own bed, surrounded by her own things, and be cared for by someone who loves her.

Someone else, apparently, someone other than you.

Oh, gee. They're closing the doors: LET HER COME HOME, you asshole. And if you can't be around her right now, THEN YOU GET OUT.

Okay, I have to run—there's so much more I'd like to address. But I trust that folks will have lots to say in comments about catatonic states, your desire to make this all about you (and how devastated you were to learn that some other man had touched your personal property), TLTTOACA, and how your selfish, self-centered, and sadistic response to your girlfriend's RAPE is the problem here.

I'm glad I'm in First Class today—because, fuck AA, I need a drink.

 

Comments (21) RSS

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1
When is Dan Savage going to receive the neccesary grief counseling he so desperately needs after the death of his mother? His rage, lack of humor, and requisite perspective has ruined him as a columnist and advice-giver.

Hit the showers, big guy. You've had a great run, but you're just embarrasing us all.
Posted by Graham on July 14, 2010 at 10:28 AM · Report
2
I think this was a pretty good response.

While I can see this event being game-changing for the dude here, it is totally trumped, bigtime, by the the girlfriend's situation. This kid is selfish and wanky and needs to step up and be not just a boyfriend but a FRIEND!
Posted by ROM on July 14, 2010 at 10:33 AM · Report
3
@ROM - I disagree. Cheat on me once, even if you've been drinking, and I'd be a idiot to trust you again. The guy should move on.
Posted by Reymont on July 14, 2010 at 10:41 AM · Report
4
They don't have to continue the relationship, but he can at least be a friend to her maybe as she goes through this? Booting her outta the house because she got raped in a bathroom is a bit harsh.
Posted by ROM on July 14, 2010 at 11:11 AM · Report
5
...yeah. A lot of assumptions here. Who says that the guy who helped her to vomit was also not blind drunk? Who came on to whom? You can't just assume that every time someone is wasted and gives it up that they were raped. It cheapens the very real experience of sexual violence.
Posted by spartacus on July 14, 2010 at 11:20 AM · Report
6
@ROM - SHE says it wasn't rape, that it was consensual and "a random incident." And I'm guessing that it's his house. So, yeah - she needs to move on out, then. Why does she need a friend? She went after a stranger's dick - maybe he'll be her friend.
Posted by Reymont on July 14, 2010 at 11:22 AM · Report
7
I'm with Dan in spirit here, but calling the dude an emotional rapist is waaaay too harsh.

I'm not fond of armchair psychoanalyzing one of my favorite people of all time, but I agree with Graham that there's been a clear shift in tone toward the rage-y since his mother's death. I disagree that he's ruined as an advice columnist, as kids are constantly coming of age and being drawn to his column, and they need to have Savage's particular (and usually outstanding) code of sexual ethics instilled in them.
Posted by Commenty Colin on July 14, 2010 at 11:28 AM · Report
8
@Reymont
She wasn't in a condition to consent. Perhaps the man she had sex with wasn't either. That doesn't make it ok or her fault. Maybe she doesn't call it rape but she's obviously traumatized. It does not mean "she went after a stranger's dick." I'm hoping you are just a troll and you don't really mean anything you say on here.
Posted by Lauren Hudgins on July 14, 2010 at 12:35 PM · Report
9
How many girls do you know feel turned off after puking? She was obviously taken advantage of but, like most women who have found themselves in this type of situation, is still taking personal responsibility because she might have done something to prevent. Regardless if she meant it or not, her current metal state is far beyond simple guilt and asshole boyfriend seems to have no interest in empathy or compassion for the woman he so deeply loves. God, I bet he's even the kind of guy that call himself a feminist.
Posted by helevent on July 14, 2010 at 12:55 PM · Report
10
This is tough.

If it was rape, and it sounds like it could have been, why didn't she call the police? She has already come clean to her boyfriend so why not take it to the responsible next step?

Let's flip this situation from a gender perspective. How many women would stick by their boyfriend in a similar situation? Namely, their boyfriend drunkenly accepted the advances of a girl in a bathroom at a party after their girlfriend left. Would you be all lovey-dovey and supportive of your boyfriend after that?
Posted by DemonJuice on July 14, 2010 at 2:11 PM · Report
11
Let me answer my own questions.

1) I can't even begin to imagine the emotional pain she is feeling after this, was it indeed rape, so of course I can't expect her to act rationally afterward.

2) Apples and oranges.
Posted by DemonJuice on July 14, 2010 at 2:37 PM · Report
12
I'm with the ladies & Dan. She was puking drunk. It's a lot easier to say you made a drunken mistake than you've been sexually assaulted. We don't know if the "other guy" was as drunk as she. But this guy's sober, so what's his excuse?
Posted by Night Moves on July 14, 2010 at 3:12 PM · Report
13
I think Dan lost all of his credibility when he referred to the boyfried as the second rapist. That is a horrible thing to call a person who has not committed a rape.

Your no Dr. Drew, Dan. Can't wait to read your apology.

"God, I bet he's even the kind of guy that call himself a feminist."

Retard.
Posted by WhatAboutBob? on July 14, 2010 at 3:21 PM · Report
14
When two obviously inebriated people get together and sex results, it is ludicrous to call it rape. Sure, she may be emotionally upset about the fact she had sex unintentionally with someone other than her boyfriend, but it is a stretch to start heaping this stuff on the other party to the act. Get over it and move on. And don't forget to reevaluate your lifestyle and learn how to keep yourself out of situations where this could occur.
Posted by thx6902 on July 14, 2010 at 3:36 PM · Report
15
I can't believe I'm reading these responses. She was BLACKED OUT. She doesn't remember what happened. This is totally out of character for her, and, moreover, and the guy "helping her throw up" was the one that did it. This is a classic, CLASSIC, date-rape drug scenario, and anyone on this comment board who suggests that she "went after another guy's dick" is just another rape-apologist who thinks that a girl wearing a halter top was probably asking for it.

She went catatonic--she's probably experiencing some form of PTSD, as her shithead boyfriend and friends wonder what happened to her morals. Girlfriend needs to get to a counselor, stat. Oh. My. God. I'm so furious at this LW and at these readers that I could spit nails.
Posted by Jerigonza on July 14, 2010 at 3:57 PM · Report
16
This must be a pretty smart bunch considering that all of you know what happened.
Posted by WhatAboutBob? on July 14, 2010 at 4:29 PM · Report
17
I'm really shocked at how douchebaggy the men in Portland are in response to this compared to the men of Seattle. What happened to this supposed liberal Portland I thought I was from?
Posted by DP on July 14, 2010 at 5:18 PM · Report
18
Many many women do not report acquaintance rape because of exactly the kind of predictable character assassination that seems to be going on in this comment thread... and further because, if they are in a committed relationship, their partners often doubt whether it was "rape" or "drunken cheating," usually to the death or serious detriment of the relationship.

And the truth is, whether it was rape or drunken cheating, the reaction of the partner (I just can't look at you right now... I just can't stand thinking about what he did to you/you did with him) is so predictable that I known plenty of women who've lived with the secret of an unreported (or at least unacknowledged) sexual assault their entire lives rather than open themselves up to the loss or reputation, intimacy and trust that inevitably results amongst their friends, family, etc. when the truth is made known.

Any girl who is drunk enough to be puking at a party is officially a wildly unethical lay, no matter how drunk the guy is, even if she's "begging for it" and you have her on video tape "begging for it," particularly if you don't even know the girl.

Defining it as rape or not is almost beside the point.

There is nothing excusable about the behavior of the stranger at the party, and I'm a little shocked to see guys on this comment stream feeling like its possibly okay to have sex with a black out drunk puking girl you've never met at a party because you're, like "totally wasted too."

Outraged rant over now.

Having said all that, we could definitely do a better job of acknowledging that rape, unfortunately, happens to both members of a partnership, and is absolutely traumatizing for the guy forced to deal with knowing "what that creep did to her."

It makes you feel helpless, powerless, angry. I'm not saying its the same level of trauma as what the woman has to go through, but it can still breed some pretty strong irrational emotional reactions, made all the worse by the "not knowing what really happened."

Both of these people need to seek counseling for what happened. 23 is young- and the rest of their lives is an awful long time to carry this around with them.
More...
Posted by trishap on July 14, 2010 at 5:53 PM · Report
19
you should all open columns, then call each other out in your columns.
Posted by Biconditional on July 14, 2010 at 10:39 PM · Report
20
I've had willing sex after throwing up drunk. I'm not saying that this story was like that, I don't know either way, (I wasn't there,) but I don't think we have enough information to call it rape (for the sake of argument we can even assume that her drink had ruffees in it,) or if she was just extremely uninhibited...

However, regardless of if it was rape or not, the boyfriend is out of line for kicking her out of the house, and yes, she shouldn't get so drunk that this sort of things happens...
Posted by Matthew D on July 15, 2010 at 1:55 AM · Report
21
@trishap Thanks for such an important and thoughtful response.
Posted by Lauren Hudgins on July 15, 2010 at 11:48 AM · Report

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