This Week in the Mercury
Thursday, September 30, 2010
News BREAKING: Beaverton Student Teacher Says He Was Fired for Mentioning in Class That He Would "Choose to Marry a Man."
Posted by Sarah Mirk on Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 4:51 PM
A student teacher in the Beaverton School District who has been summarily dismissed from his work suspects that his sexual orientation is the reason he has been booted from the school district.
- Leo Qin - Pioneer Log
- Seth Stambaugh
Seth Stambaugh, 23, a graduate teaching student at Lewis and Clark college, was placed in Beaverton Student District as a student teacher in a 4th and 5th grade class at Sexton Mountain, a public Beaverton elementary. He worked there for a couple weeks preparing for the school year.
But just after school started, Stambaugh's teaching partner called him aside told him a parent had filed a strange complaint: that Stambaugh was dressed inappropriately. On the day of the complaint, says Lake Perriguey, a lawyer who is now working pro-bono of Stambaugh's case, Stambaugh was wearing pressed slacks, a button-up oxford shirt, and a cardigan that was a gift from his grandfather. The principal did not take any action.
Later in the week, Stambaugh was leading a journaling activity in the classroom when one of the students asked whether Stambaugh was married. Stambaugh said he was not and, when the student asked why, replied that it would be illegal for him to get married because he "would choose to marry another guy." The student pressed further, asking if that meant Stambaugh liked to hang out with guys and Stambaugh responded, "Yeah." That was the end of the conversation.
After that, says Perriguey, word of the short conversation apparently got back to parent who had previously complained about Stambaugh's appearance. The parent called the school and threatened to remove his child from the classroom.
On September 15th, the principal of Sexton Mountain called the Beaverton School District and told them that Stambaugh was barred from teaching in the district. Stambaugh was told that the comments he had made about his marital status were "inappropriate."
"There's no factual dispute about what happened," says Stambaugh. "The question is whether we tolerate what happened in this state and this culture."
Beaverton School District spokeswoman Maureen Wheeler stresses that Stambaugh was never technically an employee of the school district, since he was working through Lewis and Clark, and therefore it's not accurate to say he was "fired." "It’s not an employee issue, we requested a change of placement for this teacher," says Wheeler. Lewis and Clark, she explains, made the final call on what would happen to Stambaugh. (SEE UPDATE BELOW)
Wheeler said she did not know the specifics of the conversation or why it was deemed "inappropriate" and would say only, "There were the concerns about the conversation with a fourth grade student."
"The district’s policy and practice is nondiscrimination. We seek diversity in our hiring and we create safe and inclusive environment for students and staff," added Wheeler. In 2008, a former theater teacher sued Beaverton School District for allowing a work environment that "harassed, intimidated and humiliated" him when he produced "The Laramie Project."
Lawyer Perriguey says there was an effort to reinstate Stambaugh, since he had done weeks of prep work for the specific class. But over recent weeks, Beaverton has defended their action as justified and Stambaugh remains on the blacklist. "It was a real loss not just for him but for all his students who have been denied their student teacher," says Perriguey.
Right now, Stambaugh's looking at trying to get a new student teaching job, maybe in the Portland school district. "He's looking at all of his options right now. His primary concern has always been to be a good teacher and pursue his education," says Perriguey. "Hopefully, he'll find a place at a school that doesn't discriminate."
UPDATE 10/1 9 am: Lewis and Clark spokeswoman Jodi Heintz says there's a "discrepancy" in Beaverton School District's characterization of the incident. "We categorically deny that we had the final call on what happened with Seth," says Heintz. Instead, Lewis and Clark received a phone call that Stambaugh had been removed from the school. Usually when there is a conflict between a student teacher and a school, someone from Lewis and Clark sits down and talks it out with the school. In this case, there was no discussion, says Heintz. "The fact that we were completely cut out of the process was an aberration," she says.
3
And this is why, when the zombie apocalypse comes, I will not be helping Beavertronites out with my keen understanding of zombie combat.
4
Gee, I didn't know there was a covert "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in those schools. Must be some kind of double super secret probation.
5
Oh I see, if a kid asked why a male teacher wasn't married yet and he answered "i just haven't met the right girl," it would be appropriate, but because he's gay it isn't? And because that conversation was had with a fourth grader, its not okay? Children are taught both hate and understanding, therefore the kid probably thought nothing of the teachers answer. Way to teach hate, Beaverton.
6
Just dropped in to make the same obvious point harrypotter made, that Stambaugh's obviously being treated differently because of SO, and that's really shitty.
8
They don't think his comments were inappropriate. They think he is inappropriate. Or they just aren't brave enough to face down one homophobic parent. Either way, this should not stand.
10
Yes, this is bad.
When is Blogtown going to report on the Michigan ass-hole Assistant Attorney General who is harassing a gay university student body president and his ass-hole AG boss who refuses to fire him?
When is Blogtown going to report on the Michigan ass-hole Assistant Attorney General who is harassing a gay university student body president and his ass-hole AG boss who refuses to fire him?
11
Well at least now this guy has a good excuse to leave Beaverton... more gay teachers for us please!
13
As a reporter at Lewis & Clark I would like to clarify some information that I think has been misinterpreted, as well as some comments that seem to be changing as the days go on. Please get in contact with me, please, at lbosse@lclark.edu.
14
On a somewhat related note, my favorite, most interesting teachers throughout grade school and high school were the gay ones. Those Beaverton kids are totally missing out just because one parent somehow still equates "gay" with "will definitely rape and possibly eat my child."
15
@NEX By favorite do you mean, the teachers that let you drink from their special thermos which made you sleepy and then you woke up with sore orifices? If yes, then I totally agree
16
@Evil Humpy: It was always the straight ones who got drunk during the lunch hour then got fired for clumsily groping male students in front of classes of horrified onlookers.
Well, and also because she called the one black kid in the class "her most favorite nigger."
I bet that had something to do with it too.
Well, and also because she called the one black kid in the class "her most favorite nigger."
I bet that had something to do with it too.
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@lindseyaryn, if you've got updates or clarifications, post 'em!
@nex and hump. Way to degrade a serious story. Your profs would be proud (I'm making the rash assumption you've each taken at least one journalism class?)
...on second thought, that's a really bad assumption.
@nex and hump. Way to degrade a serious story. Your profs would be proud (I'm making the rash assumption you've each taken at least one journalism class?)
...on second thought, that's a really bad assumption.
18
@bikefor1 - They reported on that two days ago, back when the story broke. http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/Blogto…
19
Is there more to this story? Neither side adds up. Why would Beaverton School District suddenly start discriminating randomly, when they have known homosexual teachers working openly and happily?
Perhaps there is more that this student teacher did or didn't do that isn't being fully explained, but would violate his privacy [or other] rights, and someone from Legal is just telling everyone to shut up about it.
Perhaps there is more that this student teacher did or didn't do that isn't being fully explained, but would violate his privacy [or other] rights, and someone from Legal is just telling everyone to shut up about it.
21
I call total BS on this. My wife teaches in the Beaverton School District, and 1/3 of the teachers in her school are openly gay.
22
I agree with ol Freddy up there. I went to school in the BSD (class of 90) and each semester I had 2-3 very gay, very open about it teachers and no one ever said boo.
Seems like an isolated incident caused by an uptight parent (those are everywhere, BTW)
Bash Beaverton all you want but when was the last time you read about a Beaverton school closing due to lack of funding? I still wouldn't send my kid to a Portland public school - I actually want her to get a quality education.
Seems like an isolated incident caused by an uptight parent (those are everywhere, BTW)
Bash Beaverton all you want but when was the last time you read about a Beaverton school closing due to lack of funding? I still wouldn't send my kid to a Portland public school - I actually want her to get a quality education.
23
Can we just take Washington County, 5000 helicopters and fly the whole damn bigoted place deep into the American South already?
24
to the straight folks who call "bullshit," please let me remind you that yr opinions are coming from a place of enormous privilege. i mean, holy shit, you can get married LEGALLY. which is a really silly "privilege," in my opinion, but to seemingly most of this country, it's a privilege worthy of legal bills and a vast array of proactive homophobia.
what you may not realize, is that in the straight world, there are "wrong" ways to be gay and "right" ways to be gay. i highly doubt a third of the staff in that school is gay and living out loud, but even if that is true, i can assume with certainty that they are the "right" kind of gay: non-threatening (i.e. men aren't too feminine, women aren't too masculine), they don't talk too much about their personal lives, they wear clothing and have mannerisms that don't say "GAYGAYGAY", etc. see, straight folks have a much better time dealing with gay folks who don't feel a need to----i don't know----ACT gay. whatever the fuck that means. the latter here, would be the "wrong" way to be gay.
Seth is the "wrong" kind of gay. he had the audacity to state why he isn't married (OHMYGOD!!!) and he's a hell of a snappy dresser and to anyone with even a shred of gaydar, seth is, maybe, obviously gay. what an asshole! he's clearly preying on y'alls kiddos and couldn't possibly be a good teacher under all of that *shudder* gayness.
-jenny bruso
what you may not realize, is that in the straight world, there are "wrong" ways to be gay and "right" ways to be gay. i highly doubt a third of the staff in that school is gay and living out loud, but even if that is true, i can assume with certainty that they are the "right" kind of gay: non-threatening (i.e. men aren't too feminine, women aren't too masculine), they don't talk too much about their personal lives, they wear clothing and have mannerisms that don't say "GAYGAYGAY", etc. see, straight folks have a much better time dealing with gay folks who don't feel a need to----i don't know----ACT gay. whatever the fuck that means. the latter here, would be the "wrong" way to be gay.
Seth is the "wrong" kind of gay. he had the audacity to state why he isn't married (OHMYGOD!!!) and he's a hell of a snappy dresser and to anyone with even a shred of gaydar, seth is, maybe, obviously gay. what an asshole! he's clearly preying on y'alls kiddos and couldn't possibly be a good teacher under all of that *shudder* gayness.
-jenny bruso
25
While visiting Portland, I met Seth just after he was fired. I don't know tons of gay folks, however I do know many intelligent caring people, and in my short visit with Seth, he certainly fits in that category. I personally like the idea that a teacher is bright and dedicated to his/her profession, and am not too concerned that they are different than others. Seth answered a child's question, not in a gay way, but in an honest way. Children are very capable of dealing with people's differences, however some parents are not. May I suggest that the parties involved meet, face to face, find some good solid middle ground and work hard towards a positive outcome. This young man and his students deserve solid leadership from the school officials. After meeting with Seth, I know he will be taking the moral high ground in this issue. .........yes gay people can be moral. Seth, good luck, Lilly's Dad
26
I found this story through Towleroad. I live a scant distance away in BC. It saddens me that the border between our countries seems to be growing into a trench of difference. My relatives live on both sides of the divide. Our rights and freedoms to be who we are are hard fought and won in both countries and yet down in Beaverton, folks seem to have forgotten the meaning of freedom. Seth is a human being who was asked a rather direct and I'm sure uncomfortable question from a kid who is 10 years old. He answered honestly and with dignity. He cannot marry. Why? Because he would marry a man if he could. Sure kids understand.
What the real reason for the upset is, is that parents who teach homophobia at home cannot possibly convince their kids that it's right when someone as clean cut and decent as Seth shows them the facts. Gay people are not weird! They are not without humanity. They are in fact normal. (And they dress better as said before - lol)
The principal of the school and those who supported the decision ought to be ashamed. They stand up for nothing. No values of freedom. They cowtow to the type of people who don't believe in real human rights.
The reason I comment is that up here we may be slightly luckier at the moment, but the fact remains our two nations walk side by side on these issues mostly. If you guys loose the battle for freedom we will too. These issues of fairness in the workplace set the tone across the whole continent. Don't back down and give the bigots a chance. I sure hope somebody can offer Seth a good job and a chance to graduate. The future depends on the next generation to out-do the last and put an end to discrimination at all levels. We all hope for a day when being human is all you have to be to have rights.
What the real reason for the upset is, is that parents who teach homophobia at home cannot possibly convince their kids that it's right when someone as clean cut and decent as Seth shows them the facts. Gay people are not weird! They are not without humanity. They are in fact normal. (And they dress better as said before - lol)
The principal of the school and those who supported the decision ought to be ashamed. They stand up for nothing. No values of freedom. They cowtow to the type of people who don't believe in real human rights.
The reason I comment is that up here we may be slightly luckier at the moment, but the fact remains our two nations walk side by side on these issues mostly. If you guys loose the battle for freedom we will too. These issues of fairness in the workplace set the tone across the whole continent. Don't back down and give the bigots a chance. I sure hope somebody can offer Seth a good job and a chance to graduate. The future depends on the next generation to out-do the last and put an end to discrimination at all levels. We all hope for a day when being human is all you have to be to have rights.
27
If you find out in grade 4 that gay people exist and lead productive normal lives you are much less likely to lash out at gay people in later life. Those children who do grow up to find out they themselves are gay would also be much less likely to commit suicide, etc. Other countries understand these simple matters and teach their children accordingly.
If this is how the teacher is going to be treated there, I would suggest he look at Canada. He can join a growing list of talented American doctors, lawyers and other professionals who have decided enough of the second class citizenship.
We can always use motivated teachers.
If this is how the teacher is going to be treated there, I would suggest he look at Canada. He can join a growing list of talented American doctors, lawyers and other professionals who have decided enough of the second class citizenship.
We can always use motivated teachers.
28
I am thoroughly disgusted that Don Martin as principal would allow this kind of bigotry to get beyond the point of the original complaint being put in its place. When the parent complained about the teacher's clothes (pressed pants, oxford button-up shirt with a necktie and his grandfather's cardigan sweater!), that parent should not have been told that the complaint would be so much as considered. He/she should have been told that the school considers this appropriate dress for a teacher. If the parent wants teachers wearing burkas, he'd better look into a madrassa in a theocracy.
And what if the student-teacher had been heterosexual and had answered thus:
"No I'm not marrried" and then to the follow-up question:
"Well, my fiancee is Australian and we're waiting to check on the legality of getting married here."
Would that teacher have been fired? Certainly not. There is a clear double-standard with homophobia at its base.
At least siix kids (that we know of) have committed suicide during this first month of school due to homophobic bullying that was not being curtailed by the adults around them. Gay kids deserve a safe place to learn, and Beaverton schools are not setting a safe tone.
Donald Martin as superintendent should be setting a positive example for the sake of setting a safe and positive learning environment in the schools. Instead, the kids are witnessing that their school leaders are trembling at the prospect of putting one bigoted parent in his / her place.
The guilty parties should not only be ashamed; they should be fired.
And what if the student-teacher had been heterosexual and had answered thus:
"No I'm not marrried" and then to the follow-up question:
"Well, my fiancee is Australian and we're waiting to check on the legality of getting married here."
Would that teacher have been fired? Certainly not. There is a clear double-standard with homophobia at its base.
At least siix kids (that we know of) have committed suicide during this first month of school due to homophobic bullying that was not being curtailed by the adults around them. Gay kids deserve a safe place to learn, and Beaverton schools are not setting a safe tone.
Donald Martin as superintendent should be setting a positive example for the sake of setting a safe and positive learning environment in the schools. Instead, the kids are witnessing that their school leaders are trembling at the prospect of putting one bigoted parent in his / her place.
The guilty parties should not only be ashamed; they should be fired.
29
[Edit: My second-last paragraph should have read: Jerome Colonna, as superintendent, should be setting a positive example..."]
31
I am all for gay marriage, but that's too young to tell the kids. It'd be like telling a 5 year old that Santa isn't real.
Plus it would open up too many doors for conversations that just shouldn't be held at that young of an age.
Plus it would open up too many doors for conversations that just shouldn't be held at that young of an age.
32
@Btown: Kids play house way before 4th or 5th grade. I was "engaged" in preschool. Marriage is not a topic that a 4th or 5th grader it "too young" for. And your Santa analogy suggests that telling a student that gay marriage happens shatters their hopes and dreams. Why? That argument seems to lead to the conclustion that homosexual marriage/homosexuality is "lesser than" heterosexual marriage/heterosexuality. I think this opens "many doors for conversations that [MUST] be held at that young of an age."
This is so ridiculous. Seth was simply answering the question his student asked - and it is a question many teachers are asked by their students. I reiterate what others have said. If a heterosexual had answered similarly, this would not even be an issue. What also strikes me as odd is that the complaint came from one family. It's not as if all of the parents were complaining about Seth's behavior. Not only does this speak to the current climate of intolerance, it also speaks to the inadequacies of the American education system. Schools are afraid of parents and let it affect the education students are receiving.
Best of luck to Seth! You will make a great teacher someday! And let's hope that you will soon be able to marry whomever you please (and will be able to tell whomever you please without risk of compromising your career).
This is so ridiculous. Seth was simply answering the question his student asked - and it is a question many teachers are asked by their students. I reiterate what others have said. If a heterosexual had answered similarly, this would not even be an issue. What also strikes me as odd is that the complaint came from one family. It's not as if all of the parents were complaining about Seth's behavior. Not only does this speak to the current climate of intolerance, it also speaks to the inadequacies of the American education system. Schools are afraid of parents and let it affect the education students are receiving.
Best of luck to Seth! You will make a great teacher someday! And let's hope that you will soon be able to marry whomever you please (and will be able to tell whomever you please without risk of compromising your career).
33
"It'd be like telling a 5 year old that Santa isn't real. "
My kids have never, and will never believe in stupid commercial fairy tales. They understood basic sexuality (and offshoots such as homosexuality) by age 6. What again is the problem with telling children how the world works?
My kids have never, and will never believe in stupid commercial fairy tales. They understood basic sexuality (and offshoots such as homosexuality) by age 6. What again is the problem with telling children how the world works?
34
I'm not here to argue how each parent should raise their own kids individually, but the majority of the population still is not comfortable with same-sex marriage.
@hiits: Sure, kids play house that young, but do they really know what it means? It's a fun game at that age, but are we going to introduce them to bills and the tough life lessons at that age too? Of course not. We're not going to (and I speak as a majority), put that pressure on the kids at that young of age. It'd be like teaching trig to a 10 year old. At that age, they're already confused by the opposite sex. Next are our elementary students going to be "married" to their best male friend? It will confuse the kid at that age.
There are a lot of personal questions that students ask their teachers that go unanswered due to privacy, moral, or comprehension issues. This is a clear case of one of those questions that should have been watered down or left unanswered. Schools should be afraid of the parents because they are the tax payers that allow the salaries and the school to operate. It's the same as our government, a democracy.
As far as the last poster is concerned, that's how you raise your kids. Nobody should give you parenting advice. Ultimately it is up to you how, what, and when you teach your kids.
@hiits: Sure, kids play house that young, but do they really know what it means? It's a fun game at that age, but are we going to introduce them to bills and the tough life lessons at that age too? Of course not. We're not going to (and I speak as a majority), put that pressure on the kids at that young of age. It'd be like teaching trig to a 10 year old. At that age, they're already confused by the opposite sex. Next are our elementary students going to be "married" to their best male friend? It will confuse the kid at that age.
There are a lot of personal questions that students ask their teachers that go unanswered due to privacy, moral, or comprehension issues. This is a clear case of one of those questions that should have been watered down or left unanswered. Schools should be afraid of the parents because they are the tax payers that allow the salaries and the school to operate. It's the same as our government, a democracy.
As far as the last poster is concerned, that's how you raise your kids. Nobody should give you parenting advice. Ultimately it is up to you how, what, and when you teach your kids.
35
Wow way to teach our children our future to hate. I live in Minnesota and I would not have a problem with this teacher teaching my son. We are a country of different religions ethnicitys and beliefs. How dare this school district teach our children our future leaders of tomorrow to hate. Shame on the parent the principle and the cowards at the school district. I hope this young man gets a chance to teach again soon.
36
so I guess teachers can tell thier students that they went to a strip bar and got smashed over the weekend, or that over the summer they joined a nudist colony? I dont think so! details of ones personal life, especially that of a sexual, political, or religious nature to not belong in the classroom of elementary students. I support the action taken place of removing a teacher for having terrible judgement. Go beaverton!
37
you know, there are alot of people that have the belief that choosing the lifestyle of being gay is not only a choice, but a sin. What about respecting the diversity of that belief? or is honoring diversity a one way street? Many of us dont want our kids indoctrinated to become desinsitized to this, or to be influenced to think that it is ok, or normal. this fellow should have used some judgement and kept his personal life to himself. My kid is expected to follow and adhere to a dress code, and a code of conduct, or he/ she too is removed from the school. just try to send your kid to school in a NRA shirt and see what happens. Or do we have to accept a double standard from those in the "alternative lifestyle camp"?
38
What is wrong with not dragging a 4th grade kid into the legal railings of two camps that are opposing in the courts and in the streets? Any semblance of understanding that this is an 18 year old and older voters problem? I went to BHS in the 60's and gay and lesbian teachers were there then. The dean of girls' partner was the Spanish teacher. (The dean was old and scary mean...! anyway..) Why do you think they won every drama award a high school can get? Please. If you were the student teacher, you are that a 'student-teacher'. Not the teacher, not an employee; like a voluteer. Running a one-person campaign has never been a good choice. Do you want a job there later? And it is a job. Like every other job, you show discretion when you are new. I am sorry that the man had to be humiliated and pulled back from his post. But it happens for other reasons too. It's often territorial and personality clashes. Human stuff.
I agree if Lewis and Clark had more to state about this to just lay it out. Beaverton School District shouldn't be made to look this way. Undeserving. They turn out educated masses.
FYI I provided speech and hearing services to kids in a Candian school district 1988-89 to 9 schools: met NOT ONE gay or lesbian teacher. In the border cities maybe it is different but beyond - no, no one was slightly out. Except one man named Alice but was not a teacher.
I agree if Lewis and Clark had more to state about this to just lay it out. Beaverton School District shouldn't be made to look this way. Undeserving. They turn out educated masses.
FYI I provided speech and hearing services to kids in a Candian school district 1988-89 to 9 schools: met NOT ONE gay or lesbian teacher. In the border cities maybe it is different but beyond - no, no one was slightly out. Except one man named Alice but was not a teacher.
39
Jess123 is way way out of line. You my friend are the one who needs re-educating.
Where I come from (Finland) this could NEVER happen.
Where I come from (Finland) this could NEVER happen.
40
Talltrees is a perfect example of how the so called "honor and respecting diverse opinions" is really only reserved for those who must accept this disease that we call political correctness. There are alot of us out here that are thoroughly disgusted with political correctness, and will never adopt its infinitetly flawed theories and ideas. take note that in "finland" this could never happen, and take note that he/ she is not there anymore, but here. if finland is so great, why did you leave?
41
this incident has nothing to do with discrimination, rather, the unacceptable conduct of an individual that either has no common sense, or a serious lack of judgement. or, being that it was his first week at a new job, he knew exactly what he was doing and was looking to get removed so he could sue.
42
nobody cares that this guy is gay or otherwise, rather that he is unable to keep the details of his personal life out of earshot of 4th graders. gay, hetero, swinger, nudist, religious freak, drunk, etc. none of it belongs in the classroom of elementary age kids. the school did the right thing and I aplaud them.
43
You need to know some facts here. My kid is in that class and many of the students and parents saw what Seth wore the first week of school and voiced their concerns right away. This was not just an isolated parent observation. Believe me... his appearance and hair stuck out like a sore thumb. Come on... the teacher's professional code of conduct is right there for all to see and he was a "distraction". The Seth you see in the news is not anything like the Seth we all saw. The comments given by Seth were heard by many students and out of line. As a professional teacher, what you do outside the classroom is NO ONE'S business but their own. The professional way to have handled it was to explain that those matters are private and went on with the lesson. I wish we could get comments from teachers that can help explain what's an appropriate conversation and what isn't in a classroom setting.
44
@Moto - what was he wearing that was so inappropriate that concerns were voiced? and what was wrong with his hair? I never thought that my little hick town in KY would be so much more tolerant than a town in the Northwest. We have one teacher who has pink streaks in her hair and wears blue nail polish, another female teacher's hair is less than 1/4" long, another male teacher has a braid that almost reaches his waist BUT they are all good teachers whom the students love. The outward appearances you say are a "distraction" are only so if one has never seen the manner of dress or hairstyle, in which case after a short time the kids get used to the new look and it is no longer a distraction.
You say the comments made by Seth "were heard by many students" So? what is your point here? he was in a classroom, this was not a private conversation - of course it was heard by many students.
As for the comment being "out of line" - Why? Would you be just as upset if it had been a female teacher who, when asked why she wasn't married had responded that she couldn't legally marry the person she wanted because they were not from this country?
Granted that what teachers do outside of the classroom is no one's business and shouldn't be brought into the classroom, however, if teachers are going to be fired for that then it must be done across the board. Why don't they start with the teacher that mentions she went out to dinner with her husband the night before, then you can move onto the teacher that mentions her anniversary in class, of course you must also include the happy teacher that tells the class about her engagement or her upcoming wedding and let's not forget the pregnant teachers because once they start to show they are certainly bringing their personal lives into the classroom and won't that ever increasing belly be a distraction?
I have been teaching for 30 years and while, as a teacher, you try to keep things private, you do not lie to children to do so. Let's also please remember that this young man is a STUDENT teacher and this is a learning experience for him. If the principle was concerned about his manner of dress or his comments then those issues should have been addressed in a private meeting. Being banned from teaching in the district is an extreme reaction.
More...
You say the comments made by Seth "were heard by many students" So? what is your point here? he was in a classroom, this was not a private conversation - of course it was heard by many students.
As for the comment being "out of line" - Why? Would you be just as upset if it had been a female teacher who, when asked why she wasn't married had responded that she couldn't legally marry the person she wanted because they were not from this country?
Granted that what teachers do outside of the classroom is no one's business and shouldn't be brought into the classroom, however, if teachers are going to be fired for that then it must be done across the board. Why don't they start with the teacher that mentions she went out to dinner with her husband the night before, then you can move onto the teacher that mentions her anniversary in class, of course you must also include the happy teacher that tells the class about her engagement or her upcoming wedding and let's not forget the pregnant teachers because once they start to show they are certainly bringing their personal lives into the classroom and won't that ever increasing belly be a distraction?
I have been teaching for 30 years and while, as a teacher, you try to keep things private, you do not lie to children to do so. Let's also please remember that this young man is a STUDENT teacher and this is a learning experience for him. If the principle was concerned about his manner of dress or his comments then those issues should have been addressed in a private meeting. Being banned from teaching in the district is an extreme reaction.
45
Can't you see that over the years all that was good is now not excepted and all that was bad then is now desensitized to be greatly excepted. Maybe the teachers should be allowed to go nude in the classroom. The kids will get used to it right? They will come to except it and appreciate a body the way it was made? Maybe we should allow our teachers to drink alcohol in the class room. That surely would teach our children to love and accept it right? If they can do it, than it must be ok.
Ok.... what should Seth have done to protect his privacy and the innocence of the kids? What is considered an appropriate conversation about a teacher's personal life. What is considered an appropriate dress attire in an ELEMENTARY classroom setting and what is NOT exceptable? What if i came to school and told my students that I had an affair on my wife last night? Would I be setting myself up for questions? Come on guys where are the limits and boundaries?
When a (child) not an adult, comes to their teacher with a question that is beyond their capabilities of understanding then the teacher needs to refer them to their parents or family. Our kids go to school to get an education of academics. What happens outside the classroom should be guided and taught by parents and family not by teachers in schools. Moral issues, religion etc. should be taught at home not in the classroom.
Ok.... what should Seth have done to protect his privacy and the innocence of the kids? What is considered an appropriate conversation about a teacher's personal life. What is considered an appropriate dress attire in an ELEMENTARY classroom setting and what is NOT exceptable? What if i came to school and told my students that I had an affair on my wife last night? Would I be setting myself up for questions? Come on guys where are the limits and boundaries?
When a (child) not an adult, comes to their teacher with a question that is beyond their capabilities of understanding then the teacher needs to refer them to their parents or family. Our kids go to school to get an education of academics. What happens outside the classroom should be guided and taught by parents and family not by teachers in schools. Moral issues, religion etc. should be taught at home not in the classroom.
46
Something is amiss at the Beaverton school district if they did not even contact the college before outright dismissing the student teacher. If the student was somehow a "distraction" before they were dismissed, it seems that is the initial place they should have been negotiating their issues. The school district's agreement, and "contract" as it were, is with the college as well as the student teacher. It appears Beaverton failed their end of the contract.
From all accounts I see nothing that should have prevented this student teacher from being in the classroom and teaching -- and that is born out in the comments by the parent who said they had a child in the same classroom. It seems the issue first started just because of someone with somewhat of a different "appearance" that the students found distracting. So, now we are judging teaching qualifications based on "appearances". A heavily obese teacher or too thin teacher can be a distraction. A person in a wheelchair or on crutches can be a distraction. A dowdy teacher with her hair in a bun can be a distraction to kids.
My guess would be that the student teachers mannerism and dress set off students gaydar and started some buzz among the students who are still struggling with what all that means and aren't having the appropriate modeling with their adult modelers to deal with it appropriately. All the more reason this student teacher should be allowed to remain in the classroom. But, even now with the conversation this is creating among them and their peers, Seth and this situation is providing them with one of the most teachable moments in their life.
And don't believe they are not aware. When I was in fourth grade I read two newspapers a day, our local paper and the larger regional paper. I and my friends were very aware of what went on in our community. In this case the media has changed somewhat but be sure there is lots of texting going on regarding this subject.
More...
From all accounts I see nothing that should have prevented this student teacher from being in the classroom and teaching -- and that is born out in the comments by the parent who said they had a child in the same classroom. It seems the issue first started just because of someone with somewhat of a different "appearance" that the students found distracting. So, now we are judging teaching qualifications based on "appearances". A heavily obese teacher or too thin teacher can be a distraction. A person in a wheelchair or on crutches can be a distraction. A dowdy teacher with her hair in a bun can be a distraction to kids.
My guess would be that the student teachers mannerism and dress set off students gaydar and started some buzz among the students who are still struggling with what all that means and aren't having the appropriate modeling with their adult modelers to deal with it appropriately. All the more reason this student teacher should be allowed to remain in the classroom. But, even now with the conversation this is creating among them and their peers, Seth and this situation is providing them with one of the most teachable moments in their life.
And don't believe they are not aware. When I was in fourth grade I read two newspapers a day, our local paper and the larger regional paper. I and my friends were very aware of what went on in our community. In this case the media has changed somewhat but be sure there is lots of texting going on regarding this subject.
47
Something is amiss at the Beaverton school district if they did not even contact the college before outright dismissing the student teacher. If the student was somehow a "distraction" before they were dismissed, it seems that is the initial place they should have been negotiating their issues. The school district's agreement, and "contract" as it were, is with the college as well as the student teacher. It appears Beaverton failed their end of the contract.
From all accounts I see nothing that should have prevented this student teacher from being in the classroom and teaching -- and that is born out in the comments by the parent who said they had a child in the same classroom. It seems the issue first started just because of someone with somewhat of a different "appearance" that the students found distracting. So, now we are judging teaching qualifications based on "appearances". A heavily obese teacher or too thin teacher can be a distraction. A person in a wheelchair or on crutches can be a distraction. A dowdy teacher with her hair in a bun can be a distraction to kids.
My guess would be that the student teachers mannerism and dress set off students gaydar and started some buzz among the students who are still struggling with what all that means and aren't having the appropriate modeling with their adult modelers to deal with it appropriately. All the more reason this student teacher should be allowed to remain in the classroom. But, even now with the conversation this is creating among them and their peers, Seth and this situation is providing them with one of the most teachable moments in their life.
And don't believe they are not aware. When I was in fourth grade I read two newspapers a day, our local paper and the larger regional paper. I and my friends were very aware of what went on in our community. In this case the media has changed somewhat but be sure there is lots of texting going on regarding this subject.
More...
From all accounts I see nothing that should have prevented this student teacher from being in the classroom and teaching -- and that is born out in the comments by the parent who said they had a child in the same classroom. It seems the issue first started just because of someone with somewhat of a different "appearance" that the students found distracting. So, now we are judging teaching qualifications based on "appearances". A heavily obese teacher or too thin teacher can be a distraction. A person in a wheelchair or on crutches can be a distraction. A dowdy teacher with her hair in a bun can be a distraction to kids.
My guess would be that the student teachers mannerism and dress set off students gaydar and started some buzz among the students who are still struggling with what all that means and aren't having the appropriate modeling with their adult modelers to deal with it appropriately. All the more reason this student teacher should be allowed to remain in the classroom. But, even now with the conversation this is creating among them and their peers, Seth and this situation is providing them with one of the most teachable moments in their life.
And don't believe they are not aware. When I was in fourth grade I read two newspapers a day, our local paper and the larger regional paper. I and my friends were very aware of what went on in our community. In this case the media has changed somewhat but be sure there is lots of texting going on regarding this subject.
48
While this is an unfortunate story, and I feel badly for the student teacher, being an educator means navigating a very tricky political climate. The educational law class I took at Lewis & Clark taught me to always err on the caution when it comes to religion, sex, and politics. Yes, it was wrong for Beaverton to blacklist him, BUT he also should have thought a little harder before talking about his sexual orientation with a group of elementary school students.
50
Henry... I am sure you are aware that the news is pretty well skewed towards defending Seth. It sells, we watch. But the fact is that the news and attorney DID not tell you that Seth's supervisor's were notified and were absolutely on board with everything that happened. There wasn't just one parent involvement. How come the officials can't tell the truth? You all are being lead down a one sided road. He was not barred. He wasn't banned. Come on guys you are not understanding what really happened. How can you judge only one side.
51
@moto900:
You still did not clarify what Seth was wearing, and specifically what was said that upset the parents so much. We would all like to know [I am assuming] what he was wearing and how his comments were percieved. In my personal opinion, I think mentioning the fact that male-male marriage is legally looked down upon is completely appropriate, it's a fact about the teacher, not personal opinion or bias.
You still did not clarify what Seth was wearing, and specifically what was said that upset the parents so much. We would all like to know [I am assuming] what he was wearing and how his comments were percieved. In my personal opinion, I think mentioning the fact that male-male marriage is legally looked down upon is completely appropriate, it's a fact about the teacher, not personal opinion or bias.
52
To: w9gMhnc4YRjBKdu_FF2ZkqcNwQcORt3FiMzi3kZ1zv7gk7qE
Here is the extent of the communication.
----
The Lewis & Clark Graduate School of Education and Counseling first learned of Stambaugh's removal when student-teacher coordinator Cindi Swingen received an email from Sexton Mountain Elementary School Principal Don Martin on Monday, Sept. 13 stating that he had a concern about Stambaugh and wanted to talk to Cindi. Swingen called that evening (Monday) and spoke with Martin. In that conversation, Don described the incident and said he wanted Seth moved. Cindi followed up with an email asking Don to consider several questions about the decision-making process used to reach his decision.
On Sept. 14 Linda Griffin, Assistant Professor in Teacher Education, called and emailed Principal Martin. Griffin received a voicemail from Beaverton School District Administrator Mark Moser and returned his call, but did not reach him and left a voicemail. Moser called and spoke with Griffin on (9/15) and Moser confirmed that the principal wanted him moved and that Moser spoke on behalf of the teacher, the principal, and the district.
The principal of Sexton Mountain, Don Martin, scheduled an interview with Stambaugh for the following Thursday. However, he was pulled aside the Wednesday before, Sept. 15, by a Lewis & Clark administrator, who told Stambaugh that he had been dismissed from the Beaverton School District.
Lewis and Clark spokeswoman Jodi Heintz says there's a "discrepancy" in Beaverton School District's characterization of the incident. "We categorically deny that we had the final call on what happened with Seth," says Heintz. Instead, Lewis and Clark received a phone call that Stambaugh had been removed from the school. Usually when there is a conflict between a student teacher and a school, someone from Lewis and Clark sits down and talks it out with the school. In this case, there was no discussion, says Heintz. "The fact that we were completely cut out of the process was an aberration," she says.
===
It appears the bulk of the communication was one-sided after a decision had already been made to remove Seth. Neither he nor Lewis and Clark were brought into the process and only told after the fact. There was no indication that the answers to Cindi Swingen’s questions were ever forthcoming or of any communication that was geared towards working out some kind of situation amiable to all parties or even one that Lewis and Clark was on board with. Seth was dismissed from the school and that was the only communication that Beaverton wanted to have with Lewis & Clark or Seth. The excuse given is that he was a disruption to the students. Translation, they did not want an open, honest and integrous gay student teacher having any kind of impact on their students.
Even though as a volunteer he is not protected under the state's employee rights laws, he still paid good money for the opportunity to student teach and have the same kind of teacher's in-class experience as a paid employee of the district. As such that is still an equivalent implied contract negated by Beaverton precisely because of Seth's sexual preference and one in which, in my opinion, there is more than sufficient legal precedent to sue for.
More...
Here is the extent of the communication.
----
The Lewis & Clark Graduate School of Education and Counseling first learned of Stambaugh's removal when student-teacher coordinator Cindi Swingen received an email from Sexton Mountain Elementary School Principal Don Martin on Monday, Sept. 13 stating that he had a concern about Stambaugh and wanted to talk to Cindi. Swingen called that evening (Monday) and spoke with Martin. In that conversation, Don described the incident and said he wanted Seth moved. Cindi followed up with an email asking Don to consider several questions about the decision-making process used to reach his decision.
On Sept. 14 Linda Griffin, Assistant Professor in Teacher Education, called and emailed Principal Martin. Griffin received a voicemail from Beaverton School District Administrator Mark Moser and returned his call, but did not reach him and left a voicemail. Moser called and spoke with Griffin on (9/15) and Moser confirmed that the principal wanted him moved and that Moser spoke on behalf of the teacher, the principal, and the district.
The principal of Sexton Mountain, Don Martin, scheduled an interview with Stambaugh for the following Thursday. However, he was pulled aside the Wednesday before, Sept. 15, by a Lewis & Clark administrator, who told Stambaugh that he had been dismissed from the Beaverton School District.
Lewis and Clark spokeswoman Jodi Heintz says there's a "discrepancy" in Beaverton School District's characterization of the incident. "We categorically deny that we had the final call on what happened with Seth," says Heintz. Instead, Lewis and Clark received a phone call that Stambaugh had been removed from the school. Usually when there is a conflict between a student teacher and a school, someone from Lewis and Clark sits down and talks it out with the school. In this case, there was no discussion, says Heintz. "The fact that we were completely cut out of the process was an aberration," she says.
===
It appears the bulk of the communication was one-sided after a decision had already been made to remove Seth. Neither he nor Lewis and Clark were brought into the process and only told after the fact. There was no indication that the answers to Cindi Swingen’s questions were ever forthcoming or of any communication that was geared towards working out some kind of situation amiable to all parties or even one that Lewis and Clark was on board with. Seth was dismissed from the school and that was the only communication that Beaverton wanted to have with Lewis & Clark or Seth. The excuse given is that he was a disruption to the students. Translation, they did not want an open, honest and integrous gay student teacher having any kind of impact on their students.
Even though as a volunteer he is not protected under the state's employee rights laws, he still paid good money for the opportunity to student teach and have the same kind of teacher's in-class experience as a paid employee of the district. As such that is still an equivalent implied contract negated by Beaverton precisely because of Seth's sexual preference and one in which, in my opinion, there is more than sufficient legal precedent to sue for.
53
Moto -- Fourth grade kids are already fully understanding of what it means to be gay and what gay relationships generally are about just as they are fully understanding of general heterosexual relationships. If not, they lead inappropriate and very sheltered lives.
Children are fully aware of their heterosexual teachers marital status or other heterosexual events that happen all around them. It is in their face everyday. Heterosexual marriage, divorce and remarriage is discussed by kids all the time. Their older siblings being in either straight or gay relationships are discussed among them all the time. Sheltering them from anything gay is only sending the same kind of message that you are sending and that is that such relationships are “bad”. Many folks don’t understand why there are so many gay teen suicides. You are the answer to that question. It is because people like you are not only telling them it is bad to be gay, but you insist on setting public policy that does the same or worse.
If a teacher is not wearing an engagement ring or a wedding band and that status changes does she hide the ring? No. If students ask about it, is she required not to discuss it? No. Is that not a similar disruption to the class? .Should a teacher not be allowed to put their wedding announcement in the local paper for fear students will see it?
Should a teacher not be allowed to have her spouse or significant other join her at school functions like a school dance? God forbid they do any kissing in public. How about the teacher whose spouse drives her to work and gives her a kiss goodbye? Isn’t that sexual in nature? How about the teacher who attends the school sporting events with her spouse and hugs him when they just won the big game?
Aren’t those all displays of sexually straight affections right in public view where kids can see? None of those are doing anything to protect the sexual privacy of the teacher nor the innocence of the kids. What you are proposing is a hypocritical double standard. .
If a teacher gets pregnant (a very sexual event) and there is any discussion about it in school, is that not a disruption to the class. If there are any issues with morning sickness, etc. at school, is that not a disruption to class? If she takes off to give birth and stays home for awhile after, is that not a disruption to class?
With your kind of thinking all fertile women should be banned from teaching. There was a time not so long ago that anything having to do with pregnancy was taboo in school as well. What a distraction it was for a woman to show her pregnancy. As soon as a woman started showing and had to wear “inappropriate” and different dress attire, she was likely not allowed to teach. Schools often bore false witness as to the reasons for her absence. Still, for the most part, the kids all knew anyway. What they didn’t learn from adults they learned from other kids who learned from adults.
But that has all changed. Kids are assimilated to it being OK with a teacher getting pregnant and the classroom issues related to it. It is a complicated thing to understand. But, they deal with it just fine at the fourth grade level -- most likely because they have had plenty of opportunities way before the fourth grade to learn and understand.
Is that what you mean when you say -- all that was bad is desensitized? By your own words then you are suggesting that being gay is “bad” and a kid understanding about pregnancy is only because it is desensitized. And of course we can’t have any “bad” gays teaching our kids. Why? Doing so would “desensitize” kids. They would finally understand that being gay in no more inherently bad than being sexually straight is. And we can‘t have any of that kind of truthfulness and honesty now can we?
---
For the record, since it appears to be such a big part of how Seth is judged, what was so “inappropriate” and “disruptive” about the attire he word in his first week. And did you see it, or was it students exaggerating as they often do? And was it truly inappropriate and disruptive or just different and trendy and something kids refer to as “dressing so gay”. The latter may be true, but not inappropriate and disruptive. After all, heterosexuals dress so, um, “heterosexual”. As well, I wonder what the attire of some of the heterosexual women are and if any of them show any kind of cleavage in the classroom or skirts above the knees or tight slacks like a Capri or any kind of trendiness whatsoever? Do any of them die or streak their hair other than natural colors? How about multiple ear-piercing in women? How about the heterosexual men or coaching staff ever wearing muscle shirts? Or how about the attire of the cheerleaders at the school. How modest are they? What is the message the female cheerleader attire (an official heterosexual attire of the school) and choreography is sending to the raging hormones of developing heterosexual young men? How distracting and disruptive is that? But, would you call it inappropriate?
Can you start to see the hypocrisy and double standard in this situation? I can see it probably doesn’t matter to you however. In dealing with issues like this over many years I can see the animus come through loud and clear. In your post and the information from others the word that gives it away is “disruptive”. How many times is it used in the context of this story?
Since you cannot fire someone who is gay because they are gay. You have learned through your school policies that students and teachers alike have a decent amount of leeway in freedom of expression, including their dress as long as it is not disruptive to the students. So, the way you have determined to can get rid of a teacher (or student teacher) who talks honestly and integrously about himself being gay in the same manner heterosexuals do, is to find a cause of his behavior being “disruptive” to the students. And apparently your strategy worked. However, if I were him, I would be seeking a good lawyer right now to sue the pants off the district for manufacturing a reason to dismiss him solely because of his sexual identity and not because of other stated reasons. . .
More...
Children are fully aware of their heterosexual teachers marital status or other heterosexual events that happen all around them. It is in their face everyday. Heterosexual marriage, divorce and remarriage is discussed by kids all the time. Their older siblings being in either straight or gay relationships are discussed among them all the time. Sheltering them from anything gay is only sending the same kind of message that you are sending and that is that such relationships are “bad”. Many folks don’t understand why there are so many gay teen suicides. You are the answer to that question. It is because people like you are not only telling them it is bad to be gay, but you insist on setting public policy that does the same or worse.
If a teacher is not wearing an engagement ring or a wedding band and that status changes does she hide the ring? No. If students ask about it, is she required not to discuss it? No. Is that not a similar disruption to the class? .Should a teacher not be allowed to put their wedding announcement in the local paper for fear students will see it?
Should a teacher not be allowed to have her spouse or significant other join her at school functions like a school dance? God forbid they do any kissing in public. How about the teacher whose spouse drives her to work and gives her a kiss goodbye? Isn’t that sexual in nature? How about the teacher who attends the school sporting events with her spouse and hugs him when they just won the big game?
Aren’t those all displays of sexually straight affections right in public view where kids can see? None of those are doing anything to protect the sexual privacy of the teacher nor the innocence of the kids. What you are proposing is a hypocritical double standard. .
If a teacher gets pregnant (a very sexual event) and there is any discussion about it in school, is that not a disruption to the class. If there are any issues with morning sickness, etc. at school, is that not a disruption to class? If she takes off to give birth and stays home for awhile after, is that not a disruption to class?
With your kind of thinking all fertile women should be banned from teaching. There was a time not so long ago that anything having to do with pregnancy was taboo in school as well. What a distraction it was for a woman to show her pregnancy. As soon as a woman started showing and had to wear “inappropriate” and different dress attire, she was likely not allowed to teach. Schools often bore false witness as to the reasons for her absence. Still, for the most part, the kids all knew anyway. What they didn’t learn from adults they learned from other kids who learned from adults.
But that has all changed. Kids are assimilated to it being OK with a teacher getting pregnant and the classroom issues related to it. It is a complicated thing to understand. But, they deal with it just fine at the fourth grade level -- most likely because they have had plenty of opportunities way before the fourth grade to learn and understand.
Is that what you mean when you say -- all that was bad is desensitized? By your own words then you are suggesting that being gay is “bad” and a kid understanding about pregnancy is only because it is desensitized. And of course we can’t have any “bad” gays teaching our kids. Why? Doing so would “desensitize” kids. They would finally understand that being gay in no more inherently bad than being sexually straight is. And we can‘t have any of that kind of truthfulness and honesty now can we?
---
For the record, since it appears to be such a big part of how Seth is judged, what was so “inappropriate” and “disruptive” about the attire he word in his first week. And did you see it, or was it students exaggerating as they often do? And was it truly inappropriate and disruptive or just different and trendy and something kids refer to as “dressing so gay”. The latter may be true, but not inappropriate and disruptive. After all, heterosexuals dress so, um, “heterosexual”. As well, I wonder what the attire of some of the heterosexual women are and if any of them show any kind of cleavage in the classroom or skirts above the knees or tight slacks like a Capri or any kind of trendiness whatsoever? Do any of them die or streak their hair other than natural colors? How about multiple ear-piercing in women? How about the heterosexual men or coaching staff ever wearing muscle shirts? Or how about the attire of the cheerleaders at the school. How modest are they? What is the message the female cheerleader attire (an official heterosexual attire of the school) and choreography is sending to the raging hormones of developing heterosexual young men? How distracting and disruptive is that? But, would you call it inappropriate?
Can you start to see the hypocrisy and double standard in this situation? I can see it probably doesn’t matter to you however. In dealing with issues like this over many years I can see the animus come through loud and clear. In your post and the information from others the word that gives it away is “disruptive”. How many times is it used in the context of this story?
Since you cannot fire someone who is gay because they are gay. You have learned through your school policies that students and teachers alike have a decent amount of leeway in freedom of expression, including their dress as long as it is not disruptive to the students. So, the way you have determined to can get rid of a teacher (or student teacher) who talks honestly and integrously about himself being gay in the same manner heterosexuals do, is to find a cause of his behavior being “disruptive” to the students. And apparently your strategy worked. However, if I were him, I would be seeking a good lawyer right now to sue the pants off the district for manufacturing a reason to dismiss him solely because of his sexual identity and not because of other stated reasons. . .
54
"The excuse given is that he was a disruption to the students. Translation, they did not want an open, honest and integrous gay student teacher having any kind of impact on their students. "
HE WAS A DISRUPTION TO THE STUDENTS: CASE CLOSED. EDUCATION SHOULD AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE HIGHEST PRIORITY.
If they feel he was a disruption, I don't see what the problem is here. I don't care about his gender or his orientation, he was a trial student teacher in a trial position and the impression he left was one of bringing up drama in an inappropriate manner.
In the business world, new employees are frequently given trial period to work while under probation. This is to give the employer a chance to back out of the commitment before investing serious time and money on that employee in the form of benefits and other perks that cost a significant about to administrate. This is exactly how I see this playing out, and it is BOTH coincidental AND purposeful that he was let go.
1. Parents whining aren't worth the battle over a low-rung employee.
2. Lewis and Clark probably should have been spoken with, and negotiations made.
Both sides are in the wrong here, and it could have played out differently, but it didn't.
Ultimately, THIS is where gay-rights want to fight their battle? This is such a wishy-washy case. You aren't going to get much sympathy from either side. The argument is too weak, ESPECIALLY since Beaverton has had an excellent gay/bisexual policy otherwise.
HE WAS A DISRUPTION TO THE STUDENTS: CASE CLOSED. EDUCATION SHOULD AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE HIGHEST PRIORITY.
If they feel he was a disruption, I don't see what the problem is here. I don't care about his gender or his orientation, he was a trial student teacher in a trial position and the impression he left was one of bringing up drama in an inappropriate manner.
In the business world, new employees are frequently given trial period to work while under probation. This is to give the employer a chance to back out of the commitment before investing serious time and money on that employee in the form of benefits and other perks that cost a significant about to administrate. This is exactly how I see this playing out, and it is BOTH coincidental AND purposeful that he was let go.
1. Parents whining aren't worth the battle over a low-rung employee.
2. Lewis and Clark probably should have been spoken with, and negotiations made.
Both sides are in the wrong here, and it could have played out differently, but it didn't.
Ultimately, THIS is where gay-rights want to fight their battle? This is such a wishy-washy case. You aren't going to get much sympathy from either side. The argument is too weak, ESPECIALLY since Beaverton has had an excellent gay/bisexual policy otherwise.
55
"If a teacher gets pregnant (a very sexual event) and there is any discussion about it in school, is that not a disruption to the class. If there are any issues with morning sickness, etc. at school, is that not a disruption to class? If she takes off to give birth and stays home for awhile after, is that not a disruption to class? "
Thank you class for your interest in my pregnancy. I am due on such and such a date, and I may have absences from time to time. If anyone has detailed questions you wish to ask me about the process of reproduction, please hold them until the end of the school day, and I'd be happy to answer them for you; now let's return back to our lesson.
Thank you class for your interest in my pregnancy. I am due on such and such a date, and I may have absences from time to time. If anyone has detailed questions you wish to ask me about the process of reproduction, please hold them until the end of the school day, and I'd be happy to answer them for you; now let's return back to our lesson.
56
I don't want my 4th grader to learn from her teacher what "gay/others" mean. End of story.
Please don't make this a gay rights issue. Think of small children and their naive minds.
Please don't make this a gay rights issue. Think of small children and their naive minds.
57
"The excuse given is that he was a disruption to the students. Translation, they did not want an open, honest and integrous gay student teacher having any kind of impact on their students. "
IT IS NOT A TEACHER'S ROLE TO BE O-P-E-N (verbally, physically or in any other way) about their PERSONAL lives IN The CLASSROOM. I'm sure you understand the meaning of the word OPEN. Teacher's should know when to draw that fine line to state the point without an agenda or allowing it to prompt questions. It's common sense really. It's called professionalism. It's clearly the parents role and responsibility to teach our children outside the classroom. End of subject!
IMPACT..... What are some appropriate and professional characteristics of a teacher's role to positively IMPACT our children's lives while at school?
IT IS NOT A TEACHER'S ROLE TO BE O-P-E-N (verbally, physically or in any other way) about their PERSONAL lives IN The CLASSROOM. I'm sure you understand the meaning of the word OPEN. Teacher's should know when to draw that fine line to state the point without an agenda or allowing it to prompt questions. It's common sense really. It's called professionalism. It's clearly the parents role and responsibility to teach our children outside the classroom. End of subject!
IMPACT..... What are some appropriate and professional characteristics of a teacher's role to positively IMPACT our children's lives while at school?
58
Moto900:
Maybe Seth would be able to teach you how to spell. Your logic is off the charts with slippery slopes, false conclusions-- your argument is the equivalent of a car salesman speech. I can't wait for you child to attend college where someone like me can teach him/her w/o your 'parental rights' in the way. Were Seth to have been like the 4th grade teacher in South Park, then maybe. Hey, wait-- hm. That's actually funny.
Anyway, Moto, do you think travel is good for children? Exposing them to other cultures different from your own? Just curious . . .
Maybe Seth would be able to teach you how to spell. Your logic is off the charts with slippery slopes, false conclusions-- your argument is the equivalent of a car salesman speech. I can't wait for you child to attend college where someone like me can teach him/her w/o your 'parental rights' in the way. Were Seth to have been like the 4th grade teacher in South Park, then maybe. Hey, wait-- hm. That's actually funny.
Anyway, Moto, do you think travel is good for children? Exposing them to other cultures different from your own? Just curious . . .
60
i hate to sound like the homophobe im not, but that isnt an appropriate conversation to have with a ten year old, even if it ended as innocently as this man says, the conversation didnt need to take place
61
@ledfeather i guess if he was asked why? that he should have just said, i'm sorry kid, i can't answer that. why? why? why? drop it kid! detention for you! there, avoid the whole subject and completely ignore sexuality. at what age would this be an 'appropriate' conversation?
62
@ledfeather i guess if he was asked why? that he should have just said, i'm sorry kid, i can't answer that. why? why? why? drop it kid! detention for you! there, avoid the whole subject and never bring up differences in sexuality. at what age would this be an 'appropriate' conversation?
63
Most people reading this article will live to see the proverbial S*** hit the fan, big time. It is well established that the right wing have rarely stuck to simply verses from the Bible in their relentless opposition to homosexual persons. They consistently use lies, slander, defamation & innuendo against a state of being. The impact this can have on young people especially; is devastating, erodes self confidence, & aids & abets the endemic anti-gay violence & bloodshed. I am a man of science. It has been demonstrated by neuro-science researchers, that even one incident of interpersonal brain trauma,( abuse of any kind) unresolved; causes a 20% increase in levels of cytokines. This increases ones susceptibility to a whole host of illnesses. Justice would require prisons the size of Texas with gallows, guillotines, Clydesdale horses for hanging, drawing & quartering, & warehouses of injectable narcotics for induction of death; in every county.
64
So when is the appropriate time to have honest conversations? After kids bully a kid who seems different until that kid commits suicide? The bullying is starting earlier and earlier before age 10 thanks to the National Pro-Bigotry Party aka the Republican Party.
65
It's interesting how the bigots think age 10 is too soon for a conversation about treating people with different sexual orientations equally when puberty starts at age 10. Way to go... wait to tell Bristol Palin to use a condom until after she gets pregnant out of wedlock and on again off again engaged to the same man.
66
If a kid ask a straight teacher if they are married - do they answer? My guess is that yes, they do.
What if Seth was in a domestic partner relationship with another man that is recognized by the State of Oregon and he had said, no, I am not married, but I have a domestic partner? Would that be ok to say? or would we find ourselves in the same situation?
What if Seth was in a domestic partner relationship with another man that is recognized by the State of Oregon and he had said, no, I am not married, but I have a domestic partner? Would that be ok to say? or would we find ourselves in the same situation?
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