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Tuesday, October 12, 2010
Oh, You Kids! This Is the Last Post About Hipsterism I'm Ever Going to Do.
Posted by Alison Hallett on Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:16 AM
The LA Times got a hold of Blogtown's favorite chew toy this morning, with a writeup of last night's UCLA panel "Look at This F*ing Panel: A Sociological Investigation of the Hipster," moderated by Christian Lorentzen and featuring Vice Magazine's Gavin McInnes (who sounds like a personification of his magazine. That is a BURN); Tao Lin; n+1 assistant editor Chrisopher Glazek; UCLA history professor Mary Corey, and a few other folks.
I actually can't imagine anything more boring than another trot 'round the "hipsters are ruining civilization/there's no such thing as a hipster" argument—and the question of whether that apathy towards the conversation actually defines me as a hipster is EVEN MORE BORING. Plus, according to this article, it totally doesn't! Because I'm too old. Anyway I did find the writeup interesting, albeit in a "trying to define yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth" sort of way.
What Do Hipsters and Pornography Have in Common:
What do hipsters and pornography have in common? As the saying goes, you know 'em when you see 'em. That was the joke moderator Christian Lorentzen used to kick off the eight-person discussion "Look at This F*ing Panel: A Sociological Investigation of the Hipster" Monday night at UCLA.The panel, inpsired by one held last year at NYU by n+1 magazine, imported many of its panelists from New York. A notable exception was L.A.'s Mark Hunter, the photographer also known as the Cobrasnake. Wearing tattered denim shorts and an American-flag shirt, Hunter spoke up idealistically for hipsters as people who were inspired and creative, getting some of the night's warmest applause.
But that came later. First, the panel struggled to agree on a definition of today's hipster. As Lortentzen joked, a hipster is easier to recognize than to define — and the eight panelists never came to a consensus.
1
Analytically dissecting a youth culture sounded so much better on vinyl; it was richer and warmer. Also, their writing was so much better before they sold out.
2
I opened the "Stuff White People Like" book and arrived immediately at the White People Liking Marijuana entry. Har har har. Silly white people.
I'm assuming Lorentzen's never heard "The Chronic" or hung out with a cholo off probation.
I'm assuming Lorentzen's never heard "The Chronic" or hung out with a cholo off probation.
4
Gavin is Canadian, isn't he? But yeah, wow, I'm surprised those panelists didn't cause some sort of hipster division by zero disaster.
5
@kiala yes. my brain combined two hipsters into one; the actual moderator is this guy:
http://newyork.timeout.com/articles/featur…
thanks!
http://newyork.timeout.com/articles/featur…
thanks!
6
A hipster is, by definition, someone 18 to 25 years old with an interest in music, fashion and fornication; with progressive ideology; with a weakness for criticism and apathy; and with the desire to be creative and connected.
A punk is, by definition, someone 18 to 25 years old with an interest in music, fashion and fornication; with progressive ideology; with a weakness for criticism and apathy; and with the desire to be creative and connected.
A hippie is, by definition, someone 18 to 25 years old with an interest in music, fashion and fornication; with progressive ideology; with a weakness for criticism and apathy; and with the desire to be creative and connected.
A mod is, by definition, someone 18 to 25 years old with an interest in music, fashion and fornication; with progressive ideology; with a weakness for criticism and apathy; and with the desire to be creative and connected.
A CURRENT YOUTH CULTURE NAME is, by definition, someone 18 to 25 years old with an interest in music, fashion and fornication; with progressive ideology; with a weakness for criticism and apathy; and with the desire to be creative and connected.
see what I did there?
A punk is, by definition, someone 18 to 25 years old with an interest in music, fashion and fornication; with progressive ideology; with a weakness for criticism and apathy; and with the desire to be creative and connected.
A hippie is, by definition, someone 18 to 25 years old with an interest in music, fashion and fornication; with progressive ideology; with a weakness for criticism and apathy; and with the desire to be creative and connected.
A mod is, by definition, someone 18 to 25 years old with an interest in music, fashion and fornication; with progressive ideology; with a weakness for criticism and apathy; and with the desire to be creative and connected.
A CURRENT YOUTH CULTURE NAME is, by definition, someone 18 to 25 years old with an interest in music, fashion and fornication; with progressive ideology; with a weakness for criticism and apathy; and with the desire to be creative and connected.
see what I did there?
7
Is this an excuse to link to the Kate Beaton comic I like?
It is? OK!
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=2…
It is? OK!
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=2…
10
@Graham, most hippies are well over 25 years old.
Also, if hipsters and hippies are interested in fashion, why do they dress so badly?
Also, if hipsters and hippies are interested in fashion, why do they dress so badly?
15
@Graham: when two people are arguing and one of them resorts to insults or personal attacks, that person has lost the argument.
16
@ bbbbb, little known fact: the first party to declare the other party the loser of the argument is the winner, in the eyes of the internet, and usually receives a MacArthur Grant within the calendar year.
Congratulations!
Congratulations!
18
@bbbbbb: You seem to be under the delusion that we're arguing. As near as I can tell we're in agreement. You're an idiot and I insult people. These are not mutually exclusive states of being.
19
As an aside, using "Cobrasnake" for a professional handle is goddamn moronic. It's like calling yourself "Zebrahorse" or "Scorpionarachnid" (though that second one is kinda metal).
20
So... people organize their lives around the accumulation and exchange of social currency. Big deal. I don't see what's so new about that idea. "Normal adults" jockey for position in professional careers in the hopes of exchanging social currency for real currency and mating privileges.
People in "youth" sub-cultures like hippies, punks, goths, or hipsters jockey for position in their respective groups by accumulating and exchanging social currency for status and mating privileges.
Not much of a difference, really, other than that adherence to one type of group typically precedes the other in the average person's lifetime.
Then again, I wonder if anyone has bothered to consider that the degree of vitriol aimed at hipsters has something to do with their being the first emergent youth culture of the "internet age" (and quite possibly a product of it, too). Roughly and generically speaking, hippie sub-culture has roots in the 1960's; punk rock sub-culture has roots in the 1970's; goth sub-culture has roots in the 1980's... you see where this is going.
Anyhow, those sub-cultures (at least in their nascent stages) lacked the kind of widespread exposure to potential ridicule that the internet age provides. Instant communication provides greater means and opportunities for social discourse - witness how internet memes, for instance, seem to crop up almost daily, and we now have the term "viral" to describe social phenomena with highly accelerated exposure/popularity.
The Sex Pistols cursing on British television may have been a big socio-cultural phenomenon, but it seems extremely unlikely, in retrospect, that it achieved its level of public notoriety as quickly as say, Antione Dodson's tirade about some guy trying to rape his sister did.
Anyhow, in short - hipsters are an emerging sub-culture that is highly visible. Recognizing instantiations of social phenomena that conform to this "new" notion called "hipster" (and insulting them, of course) seems like a fresh, new undertaking (which can... you guessed it, be used to accumulate social currency!), and therefore appealing to the masses (yay, we have yet ANOTHER group of people that aren't exactly like us that we can trash!).
Problem is, trashing people that are different than us is such fucking trope it's almost unbelievable. We've been doing it for thousands of years. The manifold ways in which human beings parse identity and ignore rational agency in lieu of appearances is astounding, and seemingly limitless. It'll be interesting to see what group emerges from the ashes of hipsterdom to replace them... and the group after that, and the group after that... you know, if you actually give a shit about that sort of thing.
More...
People in "youth" sub-cultures like hippies, punks, goths, or hipsters jockey for position in their respective groups by accumulating and exchanging social currency for status and mating privileges.
Not much of a difference, really, other than that adherence to one type of group typically precedes the other in the average person's lifetime.
Then again, I wonder if anyone has bothered to consider that the degree of vitriol aimed at hipsters has something to do with their being the first emergent youth culture of the "internet age" (and quite possibly a product of it, too). Roughly and generically speaking, hippie sub-culture has roots in the 1960's; punk rock sub-culture has roots in the 1970's; goth sub-culture has roots in the 1980's... you see where this is going.
Anyhow, those sub-cultures (at least in their nascent stages) lacked the kind of widespread exposure to potential ridicule that the internet age provides. Instant communication provides greater means and opportunities for social discourse - witness how internet memes, for instance, seem to crop up almost daily, and we now have the term "viral" to describe social phenomena with highly accelerated exposure/popularity.
The Sex Pistols cursing on British television may have been a big socio-cultural phenomenon, but it seems extremely unlikely, in retrospect, that it achieved its level of public notoriety as quickly as say, Antione Dodson's tirade about some guy trying to rape his sister did.
Anyhow, in short - hipsters are an emerging sub-culture that is highly visible. Recognizing instantiations of social phenomena that conform to this "new" notion called "hipster" (and insulting them, of course) seems like a fresh, new undertaking (which can... you guessed it, be used to accumulate social currency!), and therefore appealing to the masses (yay, we have yet ANOTHER group of people that aren't exactly like us that we can trash!).
Problem is, trashing people that are different than us is such fucking trope it's almost unbelievable. We've been doing it for thousands of years. The manifold ways in which human beings parse identity and ignore rational agency in lieu of appearances is astounding, and seemingly limitless. It'll be interesting to see what group emerges from the ashes of hipsterdom to replace them... and the group after that, and the group after that... you know, if you actually give a shit about that sort of thing.
21
@bbbbb "do you [Graham] always insult people who disagree with you?"
Is that a serious question?
In the case of Graham v bbbbbb, b was just totally owned.
"You're an idiot and I insult people": COMMENT OF THE YEAR!!!!!!
Is that a serious question?
In the case of Graham v bbbbbb, b was just totally owned.
"You're an idiot and I insult people": COMMENT OF THE YEAR!!!!!!
22
Just a shout out that one of the other people there was Alexi Wasser from the excellent blog www.imboycrazy.com. One of her hilarious web videos has shown up here before.
24
@TSW: I should point out that I totally stole that definition of YOUTH CULTURE DU JOUR from the linked article. Just in case I get accused of plagiarism.
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