http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownPDX/archives/2009/02/23/ptfc2k9_the_tension_is_buildi Comments On: PTFC2K9: the Tension is Building by Mark Evans en-us Copyright 2009 Portland Mercury. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, Portland Mercury readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact Portland Mercury. webmaster@portlandmercury.com (Portland Mercury Webmaster) Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0800 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:00:00 -0800 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Posted by chrisdennis]]> Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:45:50 -0800 Portland Mercury Posted by Your name there]]> Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:12:03 -0800 Portland Mercury portlandtimbers.com
Posted by Totalnerd]]> Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:57:31 -0800 Portland Mercury Posted by Your name there]]> Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:23:19 -0800 Portland Mercury
Posted by Jack Acid]]> Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:49:59 -0800 Portland Mercury Posted by Smiley]]> Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:29:02 -0800 Portland Mercury
First you tried to infer that this was a loan from the general fund, now you're chastizing me when the bond sale is the VEHICLE, not the legislation.

Pathetic again. Keep bringing the laughs.
Posted by Pounder]]> Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:12:39 -0800 Portland Mercury
Pounder, taxes on wages are to pay for roads, schools, parks and the like. The tax revenue on wages from people who work for Shortstop LLC go to pay their share of services that they are using just like everyone else.

Also, Pounder, House Bill 2531 is not a bond sale. It is funding towards paying off bonds. Player salaries may be low, but HB 2531 also includes owners and anyone else who works for Shortstop LLC, and their spouses. You should read the bill first if you want to discuss it further.
Posted by Smiley]]> Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:48:24 -0800 Portland Mercury http://www.oregonlive.com/forums/portlandb…

Nice troll, eh?

We're talking about business that would not set foot in this state without the improvements, for which this is probably more sensible than the precedent originally set by a business that settled in Medford... and USL players get paid chicken feed on good days.

Most of all, if there were a straight loan from the general fund, there would be NO reference in the legislation to financing costs. It's called a bond sale, just like the original SB5 plan.

Have a good day.
Posted by Pounder]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:33:08 -0800 Portland Mercury
Im sorry that you got confused by my term "paid back". But what the bill calls for is an initial subsidy from the general fund to the stadium fund because obviously the players salaries won't even start until 2011 and in order to remodel PGE Park for a 2011 MLS start need they need the estimated $5 million from this bill. That $5 Million is based on 30 years of player and staff income taxes. Then when the income taxes start coming in they are essentially "paying back" the $5 million dollar upfront subsidy.

But I suspect you already knew that to and are attempting to confuse folks who don't have the time or inclination to read dense Leg. language (you are apparently one of them).






Posted by Finnegan]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:52:37 -0800 Portland Mercury
Can we call your mind closed too?
Posted by Smiley]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:06:40 -0800 Portland Mercury
So yes, the language of the bill says "up to $150 million" as you point out. The language also says that whatever is laid out for stadium renovation/construction must be paid back in it's entirety through...the salary taxes of the players and coaches involved (and I guess conceivably the Paulsons but I doubt he actually draws a salary as owner of Shortstop LLC but if he does than his salary, whatever that is, gets thrown into the mix and it still would get us nowhere near the $150 million). NOWHERE near.

And this is where you completely go off the rails. You are either being purposefully dishonest or you didn't even read the legislation you cited.

Can you please explain to me how, in any reasonable reading of this bill, you get enough on the salary side to reach $150 million? Which if you do a quick back of the napkin math – the rate they are probably using is the top Oregon income tax rate of 9%. That means that in your paranoid world you are assuming a $5 million dollar a year revenue stream ( for simplicity sake I went with $5 million X 30 years = $150 million) from taxes on players, coaches and owners salaries. That would mean that the total salary obligation for MLS would be somewhere in the range of $45 million a year. Tell me how you get to $45 million a year when we are talking about a league that has a total salary cap (that means all of the salaries combined from 24 players) is $2.3 million a year. You are about $42 mill short bud. But you knew that didn’t you?

So what happens is that the egghead accountants in the Dept of Revenue and DAS get together and pour over the projected salaries of players and associated individuals and come up with a projection.

Once they come up with what the projected revenue from these taxes would look like over 30 years they release the money. Then this money is paid pack in it's entirety over that time period. There isn't a single cent spent that is not going to be recouped.

And if that is not enough folks there is language in this bill that specifically releases the State of Oregon from any debt or obligation should something happen in the next 30 years:

"The grant agreements do not create an
indebtedness of the State of Oregon in violation of section 7,
Article XI of the Oregon Constitution. If a provision of a grant
agreement is construed to have the effect of creating a debt in
violation of section 7, Article XI of the Oregon Constitution,
the provision is void."

Can we agree case closed?


Posted by Finnegan]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:43:50 -0800 Portland Mercury Posted by Smiley]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:00:16 -0800 Portland Mercury
I take it back smiley, go to the meetings: you'll get yer smackdown from the task force themselves.
Posted by Mark Evans]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:47:42 -0800 Portland Mercury
And we are not talking about taxes just on player salaries. The bill states that funds are draw from the General Fund to match the taxes paid by anyone associated with the teams, and their spouses if filing jointly.

I might point out that no one else who works for a wage in Oregon would be here if they could not find work, but since they do live and earn wages here, they pay their share for the schools and roads and everything else that you seem to think that employees of Shortstop LLC should be exempt from.
Posted by Smiley]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:33:04 -0800 Portland Mercury
Those little words you left out inaccurately make it seem like the state is pulling $150 million out of the general fund, which they're not. I have no doubt in my mind you meant it to be misleading, but that's beside the point.

It's also something to point out that the $5 million you say will be taken out of the general fund is $5 million that won't exist without the players being here. So either way it's money that will never be in our general fund regardless. Without the players there are no salaries.

Nice try though.
Posted by BlackedOut]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:18:33 -0800 Portland Mercury
House Bill 2531 authorizes funding of up to $150 million from the State of Oregon General Fund to fund stadiums.

Don't worry. You've got no competition for Finn's private parts.
Posted by Smiley]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:44:25 -0800 Portland Mercury
So Smiley, when do you plan on telling us how Finn's a$$ taste?
Posted by BlackedOut]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:21:50 -0800 Portland Mercury
Date: Tuesday-February 24
Time: 1:00 P.M.
Room: HR E
Possible Introduction of Committee Measures

Public Hearing and Possible Work Session
HB 2531 FIRST PUBLIC HEARING: Expands purpose of Major League Stadium Grant Fund to include financing, developing, constructing and furnishing major league stadium designed for use by Major League Soccer team.


http://www.leg.state.or.us/09reg/agenda/we…
Posted by Smiley]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:28:50 -0800 Portland Mercury
"(f) Require the Director of the Oregon Department of Administrative Services to request that the Legislative Assembly appropriate an amount equal to the estimated incremental { - baseball - } { + athletic + } tax revenues from the General Fund to the Major League Stadium Grant Fund established in ORS 184.408 so that those moneys may be disbursed under the grant agreements authorized by this section;"


Further, the funding amount is based on the state taxes on wages of not just players, but anyone associated with Shortstop LLC, including Henry Merritt Paulson Jr and is son Henry Merritt Paulson III, and their spouses if filing jointly.

As stated in the bill:

"(A) The Oregon personal income tax revenues that are generated from the Oregon personal income tax liabilities shown on the income tax returns filed by the members of a professional athletic team engaged in Major League Baseball { + or Major League Soccer + }, including revenues that are generated from the tax liabilities of spouses of members of a professional athletic team engaged in Major League Baseball { + or Major League Soccer + } if the tax liabilities are reported on a joint return;"

Members of a team defined:

"'Member of a professional athletic team' means an athlete or other individual rendering service to a professional athletic team if the compensation of the athlete or other individual exceeds { - $50,000 - } { + $40,000 + } in a tax year."
Posted by Smiley]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:07:15 -0800 Portland Mercury
"The Director of the Oregon Department of
Administrative Services may not execute a grant agreement
authorized by ORS 184.404 until the director has determined that:
(1) The City of Portland has made a written request to the
director to execute and deliver the grant agreement;
(2) A Major League Baseball { + or Major League Soccer + }
franchise has agreed to locate and be based in Portland and has
entered into a legally binding commitment to remain in Portland
for at least the term of the grant agreement;
(3) All funding to build the major league stadium that is not
based on the grant agreement has been committed;
(4) No grantee is both a public body and a guarantor for the
repayment of bonds or other indebtedness that is to be repaid
through use of grant moneys;
(5) The Oregon Department of Administrative Services has
provided a written report regarding the estimated and actual
incremental { - baseball - } { + athletic + } tax revenues
to, and has solicited comments from, the advisory committee
described in subsection (6) of this section relating to the
following provisions of the proposed grant agreement"

I think you can see that no small children will be denied education nor will anyone be thrown into the street as the Smiley's of the world will have you believe. Facts matter people.

Posted by Finnegan]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:44:04 -0800 Portland Mercury
You see folks Smiley took this sentence: "If the incremental { - baseball - } { + athletic + }
tax revenues in a year substantially exceed the amount reasonably
required to amortize a loan of $150 million over a period of 30
years with interest, the excess may be retained by the state" and interpreted it to mean that $150 million dollars being used from the general fund.

That's a leap of delusional proportions.

The estimated $$ to be raised over the 30 years from MLS players salaries is $5 million for the stadium fund.

Smiley has all sorts of BS fantasies of how the Paulson's are going to suddenly report all of their income here in Oregon and therefore suddenly explanded the bond for stadium renovation to the maximum of $150 Million. I am not sure the point of this would be.

But lets say Paulson did choose to do this. Explain to me how this is taking any money out of the general fund?

Smiley are you going to be testifying tommorrow or are you an internet keyboard kommando with 7 different Oregonlive accounts? Please introduce yourself to me.

Posted by Finnegan]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:36:02 -0800 Portland Mercury
Time for you to contact your congressman.
Posted by Smiley]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:28:17 -0800 Portland Mercury Posted by Finnegan]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:26:32 -0800 Portland Mercury Posted by BlackedOut]]> Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:15:24 -0800 Portland Mercury